Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )


Hello, we have answers for your Volvo-related questions!. Why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums. Together we can make our Volvo community a better place.
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Do you like Volvo-Forums.com? Link to us and help spread the word about our forum. Thanks!
> 240 Tune Up, I Did It! And I'm A Novice! You Can Too!
drewdle
post Nov 12 2010, 10:27 PM
Post #1


Full Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 12-August 10
Member No.: 76,812
Status: Offline
Location: Canada
Drives: 1989 240 DL



Hey gang. Instead of asking for some help, which is my usual post, I figured I'd share my experience with you.

Lately I've been having hard starts when it's cold and damp out, and it's only getting colder and damper thanks to our proximity to winter. Today it took three tries to get the 240 running, and it was stumbling and threatening a stall when running and cold whenever I took off from a stop or idled for longer than a few seconds. So I took matters into my own hands.

Armed with Bougicord ignition wires, new Bosch plugs, and a new Bosch cap and rotor, I tore the car apart after school and replaced the necessary components. This went pretty well. The cap was a little tricky to dislodge from the clips, but otherwise things went well. I found my issue too I think. The insulation on my old wire set (NGK) was worn to the point it was cracking, which with the moisture in the air was probably causing a short. The distributor was also full of debris from moisture getting in there, that I cleaned up. Going slow and taking my time, I was done in an hour. I disconnected the coil wire, then the four plug wires, writing down their routing. Replaced the rotor, and cap, replaced the spark plugs one at a time, and then reattached the wires, putting a tiny dollop of dielectric grease on the tip of each plug before popping the wires on. The car drove much, much better when I took it for a test run, but the jury's out on the starting issue until tomorrow morning. I'll post my progress.

There are two reasons I posted this. First and foremost; do not scrimp on the materials. I'll try and get some pictures up of my old wire set, but the NGK wires have flimsy rubber boots that barely cover the plugs. The Bougicord boots, on the other hand, are the size of a thick-handled screwdriver, and covered the entire plug right down to the socket skirt. The wires, cap, and rotor I bought all have brass/copper contacts, where the old wires had steel/aluminum contacts. The rotor was alright, but the cap was more steel/aluminum and was substantially lighter than the new Bosch set. If you leave any of this stuff on your car long enough, of course it will wear out, but replacing it with inferior materials will cause it to break down much faster. These parts I pulled off the car are less than three years old, and they're trashed. So once again, use the good stuff. The Bougicord wires are cut precisely for the 240, which is to say they're almost too short and fit a little tight compared with my old ones, but that's my only complaint. The greatest thing about these parts? My total outlay before taxes was about $115 CDN. $65 for the wires, $16-18 each for the cap and rotor, and $24 for the plugs. All through our local independent Volvo garage. NAPA wanted $160 for the same thing, with NGK instead of Bougicord wires!

The second reason? I just wanted to share a good experience. I felt accomplished and happy having buttoned everything back up and having the car fire up on the first try. I've done this before on Chrysler cars (the 2.2L/2.5L engines mostly) but was worried the Volvo would be a challenge. Turns out it was super easy. Even the rear plug near the firewall wasn't a challenge to get to. Nothing quite like getting it right the first time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
robert240
post Nov 13 2010, 12:06 AM
Post #2


Veteran
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 2-August 07
Member No.: 30,857
Status: Offline
Location: idaho
Drives: 86 240



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
drewdle
post Nov 13 2010, 11:14 AM
Post #3


Full Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 12-August 10
Member No.: 76,812
Status: Offline
Location: Canada
Drives: 1989 240 DL



Well, I'd call this an 80% success. Which isn't a bad thing, just shows I've got another issue to hunt down. They always crop up at winter it seems.

The Good: Car runs great. Started first try in -1 Celsius and covered in frost. Idled smooth, and doesn't cough and choke pulling away from stops on the warm up cycle. Progress has been made.

The Bad: When coasting to to a stop (I stay in 2nd until about 20km/h and then put the clutch in and brake to stop, so below 20km/h and with the engine at idle) the car threatened a stall at the first set of lights around my block (4km or so) and then at the next set of lights (about two minutes later) actually stalled. It didn't shake or cough or get violent, it just went out with a whimper and my dash lights came up. Starting it back up was super easy, flick the key and it was running and idling fine. This behaviour only seems to manifest itself when the temp gauge is showing "Cool", or the first position above stone cold. Once warmed up, this problem disappeared.

So I'm not completely off the hook yet. But suffice it to say the maintenance was far from a waste of time and money too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) Checked for codes on terminals 2 and 6. 6 was clear (1-1-1), but 2 came up (1-1-3). That's the code for fuel injectors, supposedly, but why is it coming up on terminal 2 (ignition) instead of terminal 6 (fuel injection)? Also, what exactly about the fuel injectors is it on to? The car runs 99% of the time just fine.
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
hotcrowd
post Nov 13 2010, 01:23 PM
Post #4


Member
*

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 23-August 09
Member No.: 61,239
Status: Offline
Location: Franklin TN USA
Drives: 1990 Volvo 245 wagon



Hi drewdle,

Great work! I wish you continued success.

I want to comment on this part of your statements.

'Checked for codes on terminals 2 and 6. 6 was clear (1-1-1), but 2 came up (1-1-3). That's the code for fuel injectors, supposedly, but why is it coming up on terminal 2 (ignition) instead of terminal 6 (fuel injection)? Also, what exactly about the fuel injectors is it on to?'

As I recall, the code 1-1-3 on terminal 2 points to the circuits that control switching in the ECU for the rpm sensor signal and pump relay, (not the actual injectors circuit). So, everything before the injectors.

I suggest cleaning and reseating all your fuses, the 25 amp fuse under the hood especially, and check for frayed wiring on the Crankshaft RPM sensor.

That has helped on my 1990 240 wagon. Worth looking at.

Brandon
Franklin, TN
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
drewdle
post Nov 16 2010, 03:29 AM
Post #5


Full Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 12-August 10
Member No.: 76,812
Status: Offline
Location: Canada
Drives: 1989 240 DL



Thanks for the help Brandon!

An update: cleaning up the fuse holder and fuse (under the bonnet) has fixed the stalling at idle woe. In fact it idles quite a bit better than it did. I sprayed contact cleaner into the socket, let it sit for awhile, and then pried the socket apart and scrubbed the brass contacts really well. Replaced the fuse with a new one as the old one had corrosion on the element.

Still not 100% yet though. For some reason, after fixing up the fuse, I've lost a considerable amount of pikcup. It's running and driving and idling fine, but its acting starved for fuel (I have to really lean into the gas to get any power, especially in the low RPM range). I have a few theories about this. Is this because I've suddenly provided so much more power to the fuel injection system that a blockage in my fuel filter is causing a noticeable lack of pickup? Where before, because the fuse was in such poor shape, I wasn't providing enough power to the fuel injection to notice? I originally thought I might have damaged the socket/wiring by using contact cleaner on it, but after pulling it apart and scrubbing it out, it's spotless in there and I have shiny brass contacts. Hard to see how that would cause a problem. Pickup was excellent before I touched the fuse, but the car wouldn't idle properly, as noted above.

Any ideas would be great. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
robert240
post Nov 16 2010, 03:48 PM
Post #6


Veteran
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 2-August 07
Member No.: 30,857
Status: Offline
Location: idaho
Drives: 86 240



QUOTE (drewdle @ Nov 13 2010, 09:14 AM)
but 2 came up (1-1-3). That's the code for fuel injectors, supposedly, but why is it coming up on terminal 2 (ignition) instead of terminal 6 (fuel injection)?


See:
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/Engi...lInjectionFault
Socket 2 1-1-3 is for fuel "Fuel trim (lambda control) too lean or rich"

My guess is when the pump fuse was in bad shape the ECU was able to more easily compensate for the lean/rich mixture. The clean fuse means more gas and so now it's running too rich. Here are a couple things to check:

- measure the right side of fuse 4 while running after cleaning the fuse. You should see less than a volt difference from what you measure from the battery (while running). This will verify the fuse, wiring, and relay for the pumps.

- measure the o2 sensor voltage while running, it should swing back and forth between .2 and .8 VDC during warm idle (my facebook account has a video of this). This will tell you if it's the sensor or if something else is causing a rich/lean mixture. Pulling a spark plug will also tell you if it's running rich/lean.

- Look for any split vacuum lines, listen for air leaks.

- make sure there isn't any gas in the vacuum line that goes between the the fuel pressure regulator and the intake.
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
drewdle
post Nov 16 2010, 06:34 PM
Post #7


Full Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 12-August 10
Member No.: 76,812
Status: Offline
Location: Canada
Drives: 1989 240 DL



QUOTE (robert240 @ Nov 16 2010, 03:48 PM)
See:
http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/Engi...lInjectionFault
Socket 2 1-1-3 is for fuel "Fuel trim (lambda control) too lean or rich"

My guess is when the pump fuse was in bad shape the ECU was able to more easily compensate for the lean/rich mixture. The clean fuse means more gas and so now it's running too rich. Here are a couple things to check:

- measure the right side of fuse 4 while running after cleaning the fuse. You should see less than a volt difference from what you measure from the battery (while running). This will verify the fuse, wiring, and relay for the pumps.

- measure the o2 sensor voltage while running, it should swing back and forth between .2 and .8 VDC during warm idle (my facebook account has a video of this). This will tell you if it's the sensor or if something else is causing a rich/lean mixture. Pulling a spark plug will also tell you if it's running rich/lean.

- Look for any split vacuum lines, listen for air leaks.

- make sure there isn't any gas in the vacuum line that goes between the the fuel pressure regulator and the intake.


Thank you for the feedback Robert. I'll check the O2 sensor.

Now, curiously, I had the chance to drop the car by Chapman Volvo today, so I did so. They installed a used MAF as a test and told me to see if that helps drivability at all (I have an appointment with them in a week where I can give the sensor back if that's not the issue). It did significantly change how the car runs (super smooth idle, no coughing sputtering, lots of power), but it also has presented me with evidence of your suggestion: I now have codes 212 and 111, and a 212 code supposedly is specific to the O2 sensor. So it's a possibility that it is gone too. So it seems both items have equal faults. Now curiously, if I had O2 issues, would I not also have poor fuel economy? I've been averaging 370-400kms out of 36-38 litres of petrol, mixed city/hwy driving. Is that poor mileage? I will have the chance before I give the MAF back to see if my mileage has significantly changed. Maybe the O2 has been bad all along and I'll just leave it for now. But I'll check the wires as you suggest before approaching that issue.

I find it amusing that I started this endeavour fixing one issue and have unearthed countless others as I progress.
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
robert240
post Nov 16 2010, 07:45 PM
Post #8


Veteran
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 2-August 07
Member No.: 30,857
Status: Offline
Location: idaho
Drives: 86 240



The best test for a bad AMM is to swap in a known good unit ... but I would momentarily disconnect the battery after any changes to clear the ECU's memory so it can "start fresh". Otherwise the codes may be because it was confused from the swap.
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
drewdle
post Nov 16 2010, 10:07 PM
Post #9


Full Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 12-August 10
Member No.: 76,812
Status: Offline
Location: Canada
Drives: 1989 240 DL



QUOTE (robert240 @ Nov 16 2010, 07:45 PM)
The best test for a bad AMM is to swap in a known good unit ... but I would momentarily disconnect the battery after any changes to clear the ECU's memory so it can "start fresh". Otherwise the codes may be because it was confused from the swap.


So in other words, the best course of action here might be to disconnect the battery first, then fire it up and check for codes again before blaming the O2? Essentially what was done was a good AMM was swapped in and is running perfectly fine, no issues. I just haven't driven enough since cleaning the fuse and socket to know if my gas mileage has gone down, which would point to a bad O2.

I was kind of hoping I wouldn't have to buy an AMM right now. $170 for a good used one beats $700 for a new one, but it's still an unexpected surprise.
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
robert240
post Nov 16 2010, 10:51 PM
Post #10


Veteran
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 2-August 07
Member No.: 30,857
Status: Offline
Location: idaho
Drives: 86 240



yes I would clear the codes (battery disconnect) and drive it awhile so it can re-learn the replacement AMM. Used AMM's go for $20-40 on ebay, and my local salvage yard charges $20 with a free exchange warranty for them. I already have two spares (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
QuoteReply
« Next Oldest Volvo 240, 242, 244 & 245 Forum Next Newest »
  Advanced Search

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Reply to this topicStart new topic
Get your Volvo listed in the Garage Today, for FREE, to share with the world what you drive and what toys and modifications you have.

Collapse

> Similar Topics

  Topic Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
No New Posts Upcoming Holiday News
0 CarID 11 20th November 2014 - 09:56 AM
Last post by: CarID
No New Posts 240 Sun Visor Clips
0 86volvoguy 98 28th October 2014 - 06:27 PM
Last post by: 86volvoguy
No New Posts Upgrading 2004 Xc90 Single Cd To Multi Cd?
0 bigbruggsy 304 18th June 2014 - 12:30 AM
Last post by: bigbruggsy
No New Posts Topic has attachments240 Wagon Just Purchased - Wheel Upgrade?
New Member Intro
3 wiffies 1,013 9th March 2014 - 01:39 PM
Last post by: vlvwagon
No New Posts 240 Wagon Cargo Cover
15 deadfan50 5,450 30th December 2013 - 05:54 PM
Last post by: vlvwagon

 
> Link To Us
If you found our site useful please link to us <a href="http://www.volvo-forums.com">Volvo-Forums.com</a>.
 
Time is now: 23rd November 2014 - 06:54 PM
© 2004 Volvo-forums.com
Volvo-Forums.com is not affiliated with or endorsed by Volvo Car Corporation.
Privacy Statement