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> Car Idles/revs High Then Dies (all Of The Time), car won't stay running when stopped or parked
James_McAninch
post Feb 22 2010, 06:11 PM
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Hello Friends,

I'm reluctant to post here because the last 2 or 3 problems I've had didn't get any responses, and we're mostly my fault, hooray for not knowing anything about cars!

My problem this time is simple, whenever the car is stopped (at a stop sign or stop light let's say) it won't idle. It spikes up to 3k rpm and then dies. In order for me to drive the car I have to constantly tap the gas pedal and hold the break down so the car won't jump.

I had a mechanic look at it, and he checked all the little vacuum lines and then unplugged the mass air flow sensor and the car stopped reving and dieing so he told us this was the problem. We purchased a reman mass air flow sensor from O'reillys and this did not fix the problem.

Any opinions, or other senors/adjustments I could check/make?

Thanks,

James
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SykO
post Feb 22 2010, 10:10 PM
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could be one or all of several things. throttle position sensor, air idle control valve, bad coil. does it do this when hot or cold?

M
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James_McAninch
post Feb 25 2010, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (SykO @ Feb 22 2010, 10:10 PM)
could be one or all of several things. throttle position sensor, air idle control valve, bad coil. does it do this when hot or cold?

M


I really thought I made a reply post to this, but apparently I didn't.

First off, it should be noted the car is a 1987 740GLE with approx. 400k miles.

Secondly,

It does this whether it is cold or hot, but it may be more finicky when it's cold (it always ran a little poorer in the cold) it runs worse when it's wet outside more than anything, and it seemed that it ran better with alcohol free gasoline.


From your suggestions I don't think it would be a bad coil, because it appears to be getting proper ignition, and works better when it's constantly getting fuel (driving down the road).

It just runs very, very poorly when stopped and running, or when parked and running. So poorly it will automatically die if you don't keep tapping the gas.

You can't hold the gas in because when it spikes it will jump, meaning it goes from adequately idling, to dieing, and if you are giving it gas when it decided to idle properly, it will jump wildly.
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SykO
post Feb 25 2010, 07:21 PM
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it could be a problem with the fuel pump relay in that case. does it smoke at all when it is running?
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James_McAninch
post Feb 27 2010, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (SykO @ Feb 25 2010, 07:21 PM)
it could be a problem with the fuel pump relay in that case. does it smoke at all when it is running?


No it doesn't smoke at all.

I have another 740, 1989 GL, and I have a chiltons manuel, I'm going to attempt to look at these possible issues you have suggested and see if I can tell anything about them possible being the cause, and possible exchange the parts from the other car.

Also, when the mass air flow sensor is unplugged, the car runs fine, with an increasingly steady idle. This is what made the mechanic think that it was the cause of the problem. What does that sensor send information to? Because if the sensor isn't bad what ever it's sending information to, may be bad, or is that incorrect logic in assuming so?
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James_McAninch
post Feb 27 2010, 06:06 PM
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Well I checked the air idler control valve by putting it on a battery and seeing if it moved. It either opened wide or closed, meaning it works, however I read on another volvo forum that this one guy swore up and down that if the other person posting would clean it with throttle body cleaner that it would fix it problem because the valve was sticking or lagging.

I changed the throttle position sensor off of my other car cause the part numbers matched. I also cut the end off of the plug and wired it back up right because all of the wires were frayed and crossing.

Also checked and tightened all my vacuum hoses as people said it seemed like a vacuum hose problem.


So give me some more input if you can, tomorrow after church I aim to take off the air idler control valve and clean it out and see if that makes a difference.
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James_McAninch
post Feb 28 2010, 10:21 PM
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I cleaned the air idler control valve out with carburetor cleaner and engine degreaser. It freed it up considerably, yet it didn't impact the performance of my car all that much. It runs better, and tries to not die, but it still dies.

I may have misled yall in my previous posts by saying the idle jumps from almost dieing to revving up real high. If I start it and don't give it any gas it will die, it only revvs because I am touching the gas pedal and then it acts like it gets too much gas and revs up way high.

Are there any other suggestions, checked all the vacuum lines, air filter, mass air flow sensor, air idler control valve, and throttle position sensor.


Any other suggestions or places I may need to go back over?
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James_McAninch
post Feb 28 2010, 11:55 PM
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I found some other posts describing the exact same problem on this site and volvoforums and it seemed to boil down to 3 things (faulty in-tank fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and idler motor (which I took to mean air idler control valve)). Since I have cleaned and verified the working state of the AICR, I am going to work toward checking the relay tomorrow (since it's the easiest and I have spare relays). How would one go about checking the in tank fuel pump?

I believe the pump could be the problem because the fuel pump already went out on my 740GL and this is a very old car, it just seems like it wouldn't be getting any fuel if this were the case.

Also, in the hopes people are actually reading this and following along on my quest to fix the problem I am going to note some better ways of describing my problem I saw in other posts.

Basically if I don't give the car any gas it will stall, therefore if I "play" with the peddle, gently tapping it and letting off as it goes from stalling to surging it will run.

I have already checked the vacuum hoses, air idler control valve, throttle position sensor, and mass air flow sensor.

I will note I have a bad exhaust leak, could this be contributing to the problem, and also when I changed the throttle position sensor, I have read about calibrating it, I simply screwed it back in place, didn't seem like much adjustment could be done.

any help is appreciated.
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SykO
post Mar 1 2010, 09:36 AM
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an exhaust leak will only cause a lack of back pressure and increase your mpg, it will make it idle roughly too, so it probably isnt helping the problem, but i doubt it IS the actual problem. Replace the fuel control relay as it will be cheaper than the pumps first.

M
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James_McAninch
post Mar 2 2010, 11:21 AM
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I unplugged the fuel pump relay and tried to start the car, nothing happened, it wasn't getting any gas (obviously). So I replaced my current relay (manufacture date 1986) with the fuel pump relay from my 740GL (manufacture date 1997). The relay in the other car had obv been replaced, so I felt it had a better chance of working properly. It didn't help the situation one bit.

I also thought that if I unplugged the sensor and the problem stayed the same that it would show that the fuel pump is not faulty. However, this wouldn't be the case if the relay controls both pumps.

This is really starting to upset me, everyone has said it is EITHER a vacuum line/hose problem, or a sensor problem.

I have checked all known sensors that could be effecting the problem, and have went over the hoses in triplicate. Does this really mean that the only cause is the in-tank fuel pump? Are their anyways of getting false positives from these sensor checks, could I have bought a faulty Mass air flow sensor if it was the inital cause? I really don't want to attempt to remove the in-tank fuel pump because it's a bit more involved to drop the tank and disconnect all fuel lines (plus i'd say a reman fuel pump is nearly 300 dollars).

Please, I need more suggestions!

Thanks for all of your assistance thus far syko.

Anyone else got suggestions of areas to look for possible faults?




I am about to break down and take this to a real mechanic but my fear is that the fee they charge for the discovery part of the repair will increase greatly as they cover all the avenues I've previously crossed.
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tam85
post Jun 25 2010, 10:06 PM
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hi i also want to clean my valve, any advice what is the best cleaning tool? can i use any degreasing agent or should i stick with carb cleaner? thanks.
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danielm85948
post Jul 4 2010, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE (James_McAninch @ Feb 22 2010, 07:11 PM)
Hello Friends,

I'm reluctant to post here because the last 2 or 3 problems I've had didn't get any responses, and we're mostly my fault, hooray for not knowing anything about cars!

My problem this time is simple, whenever the car is stopped (at a stop sign or stop light let's say) it won't idle. It spikes up to 3k rpm and then dies. In order for me to drive the car I have to constantly tap the gas pedal and hold the break down so the car won't jump.

I had a mechanic look at it, and he checked all the little vacuum lines and then unplugged the mass air flow sensor and the car stopped reving and dieing so he told us this was the problem. We purchased a reman mass air flow sensor from O'reillys and this did not fix the problem.

Any opinions, or other senors/adjustments I could check/make?

Thanks,

James check the air flow meter,clean it with carb cleaner,and change the fuel pump relay

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Gijoew1
post Aug 5 2010, 08:57 AM
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This realy sounds like a weak fuel pump problem. I just replaced mine. My 740 is a '92 but it might be the same type of set up. I found a plate in floor board over the tank that I was able to remove and access the tank and pull the pump assembly. You might check for this as you my not need to pull the tank. Hope that helps.
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usahelp
post Aug 9 2010, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE (James_McAninch @ Feb 22 2010, 07:11 PM)
Hello Friends,

I'm reluctant to post here because the last 2 or 3 problems I've had didn't get any responses, and we're mostly my fault, hooray for not knowing anything about cars!

My problem this time is simple, whenever the car is stopped (at a stop sign or stop light let's say) it won't idle. It spikes up to 3k rpm and then dies. In order for me to drive the car I have to constantly tap the gas pedal and hold the break down so the car won't jump.

I had a mechanic look at it, and he checked all the little vacuum lines and then unplugged the mass air flow sensor and the car stopped reving and dieing so he told us this was the problem. We purchased a reman mass air flow sensor from O'reillys and this did not fix the problem.

Any opinions, or other senors/adjustments I could check/make?

Thanks,

James
Rough Idling, stalls and lurches (revs up) eh?. well I've read all replies pertaining to "sensors" OK I see that you are considered a "Back Yard Mechanic" The problem could be a majority of things causing this. No where did I read a reply from you or others in relation to a "TUNE UP!" it is apparent, that you say it will run by depressing the pedal, but atimes will accellerate (lurch) So if you have not already try this! 1.Replace Fuel Filter, 2.Replace Distributor Cap, Rotor Button, New wires and Spark Plugs Bosch or NGKs..., Next Step, 2.If your "Check Engine Warning" light has never come on, chances are your sensors are OK, but check the "fuse" in the fuse box to make sure the Check Engine warning light is not blown!, also if your engine light has ever came on while driving, Then your only 2 alternatives is have it put on a "VOLVO DIANOSTIC"S Computer to give the trouble shooting codes, or do it yourself called trial and error, being and starting eith the simplest to the major. The guy who told you to remove the hose from your throtle intake and spray it well, by opening up the butter fly (using your hand to control the throtle while spraying), but do not open and close the fly more than once!, to do so will flood the engine, you also can clean the throttle and fly by runing the engine using your hand to control throtle to keep it runing while you do short burst of the spray cleaner, it is better to clean it this way, with engine off, you will have to hold the pedal to the floor to start it after you clean it, but, with it runing while spraying, the dirty residue goes into the manifold and is burnt up, and no problems to ever restarting! 3. now if you look close at the throtle you will see the throtle adjusting screw, back off the lock nut, and while the engine is runing, advance the throtle screw to increase the RPMs do not advance more then 1000 RPMs, the engine will run OK at 1000 RPMs, recomendations are from 800 to 1000 RPMs, the mass air sensor is only to tell the idler to adjust the flow of mixture of fuel lean or rich when the "Crank Sensor relay sends imfo for every repetition for proper ECM, That air quality polution control Mickey Mouse Crap has caused a lot of engine problems! And finally if your vehicle exceeds 400,000 miles, then she is on her last breath!, being everything from burnt valves, bad and hard oil seals, burnt and bad piston heads and seals, rings, Timing and etc!, The question is, is she worth all the labor , parts, time and money? Now if she had under a 150.000 miles and had been well maintained and the body and interior is decent, go for the expense to repair, One thing I know is, Volvos are: Very Old Lame Volkswagens Over-rated! and thats a fact Jack!
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