Hello all, my first post here, and I wish it were under better circumstances.

The problem: My '82 244GLT has had a problem for a few weeks where it didn't want to fire up when cold. Battery is very strong, but there was no spark. I used a circuit tester to see if there was power going to the coil, and there was, yet there was no spark from the coil. Somehow, I fluked out and disconnected and reconnected one of the power wires to the coil while the ignition was turned on, and when I turned the key again, the car started. From then on, I found that when the car was cold, I'd usually need to do this trick to get the car started, have the ignition turned on, disconnect the power wire, then reconnect it, then, without turning the ignition off, crank it over, and then it would start. The car would then run fine, and once warm, I could turn off the engine and restart it without a problem.

This went on for almost 2 weeks, until my car died on my way to work, last Thursday, and I couldn't get it going again. I would have wanted to tow it to work, where I would be able to park it and work on it (tight space and poor lighting at home, plus my building doesn't allow auto work in the undercover parking), but because I was already quite late for work, and didn't want to pay for another tow in the event that there was something else at fault besides the ignition, I opted to tow it to a mechanic shop that operates on the property where I work.

They were busy, but finally, 6 days later, they said they had my car fixed. The owner told me that it was difficult to diagnose the problem, because the wiring appears to have been altered. They had replaced the pickup coil, and taken it for a test drive, and everything seemed fine. I was charged for 2 hours of labour for diagnostics and repair at $80CDN/hr, and just over $35CDN for the pickup coil. So I got my car back, and it was running, but within a few blocks of driving, it conked out again, and I couldn't get it going.

I called up the shop, and spoke with the owner, he said to try to limp it back so that they could take another look at it. I did get it going again, after it had cooled down for a couple of hours, I had to do the trick of disconnecting and reconnecting the power to the coil while the ignition was turned on though. I decided to drive the car and park it somewhere that I could take a look at it myself (the shop was closed by this time).

I remember that when my car first died, I had tried swapping my distributor cap with a spare that I had in my trunk which was still good, to no avail. The spare was orange, and the original was black. I had left the black cap on my passenger seat when I had my car towed to the shop. For some reason, when I was checking my car this time, the black cap was now on the distributor, and the orange one was nowhere to be seen.

After some checking, I found orange plastic bits in the centre of my distributor shaft, where the rotor pushes on. I also discovered that my rotor had the tab in the centre broken. So those pieces came from there. I also found 2 pieces of graphite in my distributor, which look to have come from the other cap (the 2 pieces form a cylinder with a rectangular bit on one end which seems to be a wear indicator for the graphite centre piece on the missing cap (I know how it looked before it went missing. I

So I fished out the graphite bits and swapped my rotor with a spare I had, it seemed to go on more tightly than the broken one. Now I don't know if the rotor was broken before my car went to the shop, I remember it seeming to fit on sloppily while I attempted roadside repairs, but I know that the missing cap was in good condition before my car went to the shop, and nothing was mentioned to me about where that cap went.

I don't know how you can bust the centre graphite piece from a distributor cap, I've swapped them over so many times, and never had that happen. And I suspect that the rotor was busted at the same time as the centre piece on the cap, so how does that happen?

Anyways, to more direct topics. My car is a 1982 240 series, and according to my repair manual, it should have the early Bosch pointless ignition (not EZ-116K Chrysler/Volvo system). The distributor cap is a small one, not the "big, white, ugly" one that the Chrysler/volvo ignition systems have. The distributor has a 2-pronged connector going to it (for the pickup coil). From what the manual tells me, it shouldn't have a crank position (RPM) sensor (can't verify, the car is at work and I am at home). And also, the module that controls ignition should be separate from the one that controls the fuel injection (not all integrated, as in EZ-116k, if what I read is correct.)

Another thing that has bothered me is that there is an adjustable "air gap" between the impulse generator (pickup coil) and trigger wheel in the distributor on early pointless ignition systems, like my car apparently has. The owner of the shop that worked on my car insisted that an improper air gap can't be the problem, and that the air gap should never need to be adjusted outside of the factory. Can anyone comment?

I'm hoping some gurus can shed some light on this situation, I'm sure that this problem has a simple resolution, but I have yet to find it.

Kinda sounds like the coil (not refering to the hall sensor "pick-up coil" already replaced). Did the shop try a different one? Do you have access to a volt/ohm meter?

Hi there. Yes, I have a fairly decent digital multimeter. I checked the resistances through the coil, and they are up to spec, according to my Haynes manual that I have. If I connect the high tension lead from the coil to a spark plug, I can induce a blue spark on it by disconnecting and reconnecting the power from the coil primary leads. That being said, it would still be nice to try another coil, as there could be an intermittent problem with the coil (the worst to diagnose). The shop didn't mention if they tried a different coil, but I'll ask them, thanks.

I may be able to get the car to run for the 5 minutes it takes to get it back to the mechanic, and hope that he finds something simple without charging me another $220. But if all they are going to do is swap parts around and bill me for it, I could do that myself, for much cheaper.

What do you measure at the brown (+) coil wire to ground with the key on? You should also see ~9VAC at the white (-) coil wire while cranking if the ignition ECU (and hall sensor) is working.

Thanks for the info.

I was able to get the car back to the shop, took me 2 runs, I got about halfway and it died, then waited 2 hours for it to cool down, and was able to start it again. So I'm unable to do those tests at the moment. Hopefully they'll figure something out.

So what do you think about the air gap setting? Could that be causing these problems? I'm worried that the ECU may be the cause of the problem. Those times when I had to disconnect and reconnect one of the power wires on the coil with the ignition on, then crank it to get it to start makes me wonder. Was something in the ECU being reset when I did this?

not sure about the air gap, let us know how it goes.

Well, on Saturday, I stopped by the repair shop to ask them if they wanted me to try to move the car closer to their shop, under the guise of trying to be helpful. Where it was sitting, they couldn't see it, and I figured "out of sight, out of mind", and I didn't want them to forget about it.

So I got the keys, and tried to start it, it didn't start right away. So I popped the hood in order to try the coil power wire trick, and when I tried to crank it again, I saw smoke coming from the positive cable on the battery.

I removed the cable from the battery, the inside of the clamp seemed clean, but I wiped everything off with a clean rag, as I didn't have anything else to clean it with. I put the cable back on, and this time it started. Now I don't think that the connection between the battery post and the clamp was bad, but I'm wondering if something is rotten inside, where the cables are attached to the connector. Could an intermittent connection between the fusible link and the battery cause a problem with the ECU? This sounds reasonable. I'm thinking that when I removed the battery cable, the wire flexed inside of the connector, and temporarily gained a better connection. If the wire is cooking inside of the connector, this could explain why it goes for a while and then dies, then works again once it cools down. It wouldn't seem like the most likely cause, but when it comes to cars, you shouldn't overlook anything.

So it's been almost 3 business days since they got my car back (it was right before closing when I got it back to them on Friday), and understandably, I'm getting quite anxious. I'm paying $5/day in bus fare to and from work, on top of what I pay for vehicle insurance, which is mandatory here. I've since acquired the number of a mobile mechanic who comes to your location to fix your car, and charges half the hourly rate that the shop does. Had I not already given the shop $220, I'd take my car back and have this guy work on it. I'm still holding on to some sliver of hope that the shop will find something simple wrong with my car and fix it at no extra charge. Does anyone know if I have any legal right to ask for at least a partial refund, and get my car back?

I don't know about Canadian law. What he charged you is not unreasonable. I would ask him about the rotor and distributor cap - if he broke them, he should replace them with the correct factory items. However, since you opened the distributor this is going to be difficult to prove. Are your spark plugs new and the plug wires the correct factory items? Have you tried to run it after cleaning the battery terminal? Also since this is a Canadian 244GLT does it have a B23E engine and K-jet fuel injection?

Well, it would be difficult to prove under the best of circumstances, it's my word against theirs, after all, and there's two of them, one of me.

I wouldn't be complaining about the bill, if the work done had actually got the car running properly. What's bugging me is that it's been in there since last Thursday afternoon (I think I said Friday in a previous post, it was actually Thursday). It's now Wednesday, 4½ business days later, and I still haven't received word from them. To me, this sort of time frame is unacceptable, I've been without use of my car for 13 days, I had hoped for a faster resolution by bringing it into the shop (instead of fixing it myself), and instead I get the opposite effect. So I feel that I should be able to take it back and find another way to fix it, their work didn't resolve anything, and they don't seem to have any motivation to look at it again. I feel like my car is being held hostage.

As for my car's engine, I believe B23E is what it said under the hood. I'm not sure about the fuel injection system, I'm a Volvo newbie and haven't needed to look at that yet (I learn as I go). As far as I know, it's injected, and the ECU for the injection is a separate one from the ignition. I haven't checked into anything beyond the coil high tension lead, I didn't feel it necessary, because if there isn't spark coming from the coil, there sure won't be any at the plugs.

My apologies for reviving this dead thread, but I forgot to conclude it.

The problem turned out to be the control module for the ignition. $300CDN for a used one. Seems a bit steep for a unit that only gives a binary output, but oh well, it got the car running. Thanks for all of your help.