I bought a 1997 850 GLT Wagon a two months ago. So far, it's spent most
of that time at my mechanic's shop. I had to replace the radiator first.
Then I noticed oil was being pushed out of the oil cap. I looked up what
the problem might be right here on this forum, and followed the advice,
right down to ordering parts from Groton.
My mechanic thought the hoses needed changing, since they were brittle
and clogged. He also put in a new oil separator, all new hoses attached to
it, and replaced the manifold gasket. New tune up kit, oil change, and a
cabin air filter, which my car did'nt come with.
He took it for a long test drive and said it runs so much better than before.
It had been missing due to spark plug wire #5 burning a hole through the
insulator, and arcing over to spark plug #4. Even put in a K&N Air Filter!
He told me that it runs so well that he did'nt think the high pressure could
be due to the rings being worn; that it performs great, and the motor was
in good shape and not in need of replacing. Still', he's going to do a leak
down compression test just to be sure. He ran the car and disconnected
one spark plug wire at a time to see if he could get the engine to stop
producing the high pressure.
There should be a slight vacuum;
a finger put over the dipsticik hole with the motor running
would feel it being pulled in, not pushed out.
I called my former Volvo mechanic to ask him what he thought could be
causing the oil to run out of the oil cap. He told mt the gasket on it should
be pliable, and should easily bend in half. If it was dry and brittle, that oil
would leak out of it. He also said a slight positive pressure is normal,
which is a distinct contradiction to what I mentioned above. I'm frustrated
Had I known that I would have to spend so much money, be without my
car, not even able to smog it yet, and do all these repairs . . . without a
doubt, I would do it all over again. I'm positively in love with this car.
Five years ago, my Mom gave me her 1988 240 DL sedan. It gave us
great service, logging in 329K when the power steering rack boot tore.
Then I got a 1987 240 DL Wagon, which ran well, but the sedan had more
pep. The sedan had a manual 5-speed, and the wagon was an automatic.
This 850 is so much fun to drive, even though I've had few opportunities
to put her on the road. Even got a cool new set of Michelin Pilot Exalto's.
All of this does me no good since I won't run it with this positive pressure.
I'm afraid I'm going to blow out the rear main seal; other seals & gaskets
Everything I bought from Groton was a genuine Volvo part, with one very
crucial exception. The oil cap I ordered from them was an aftermarket
product, since they did'nt offer the origina; OEM version. It leaks too.
Bought another oil cap from AutoZone, and my mechanic said he did'nt
like the way it rocked back and forth; that it did'nt seem to fit tight enough
Guess I'll head on down to the Volvo dealership today to buy a real one,
but that is'nt going to take away the pressure, which my mechanic was
able to measure. He said it was pushing out a constant 1-2 pounds.
HELP ! Can anyone tell me what else might be causing this problem?
I'm going to ask my mechanic if he checked the bayonette connector
attached to the accordion hose. He did mention that when we received the
oil trap kit with all the hoses, that the only hose not included was the big
accordion hose. I wonder if that connector came with the kit? I don't know
what else we might have missed, but obviously, we did'nt fix the problem.
I'd like your input also on the temporary remedy he suggested we could
do just for now- putting a small hose with a filter on it so that the motor
could vent the pressure out into the atmosphere, thus not taking a chance
on blowing seals,and having the oil continue to come out of the oil cap.
Yes, he did inform me that it would never pass the Smog Test like that.

Thank you all for being here. I'm happy and honored to join this forum.
Please, if you know, what I should tell me mechanic to do next?
We're pulling our hair here. The car has only 90K on it, and the timing
belt was changed at 70K, as recommended by Volvo. I only use premium,
and Castrol Syntec 10-40, which the owner's manual insists on, or the
warranty would not have been valid. Actually 92, 000 miles to be precise.
_________________
Ernesto

sounds like your pcv is blocked up

+1 on the Greeks suggestion.

He says he replaced the oil separator and hoses and manifold gasket - so it sounds to me like they already did the oil trap/ pcv.

Did your mechanic clean out the holes into the block where the oil traps draws from and drains to?

Excuse my trim level ignorance, but does GLT imply turbo? If so did you clean the PTC
(IMG:http://lakesidedp.com/uploadpics/pcv/ptc.jpg)

hey, what if that nipple is blocked off, i just realized that has been blocked of on my car for some time, like after the head and piston area replacement. mines not hooked up...uh oh.

Yes, in 1997 Volvo came offerd a low pressure turbo on the GLT model.
The levels were Base, GLT, Turbo (or T-5) and the R, a full on racer.
My turbo does'nt have to get to a high rpm or speed to engage. At 1800 rpm the
turbo comes on, with about 9 pounds of boost, compared to the 16-18 or so on
the cars with a Trubo or "R" badge.

Yes, my mechanic was sure to clean out all the fittings, inlets, & connecting points that ran off all of the hoses attached to the oil trap/separator box, the air box,
the turbo, fresh air hose. Everything possible that was mentioned here. I spent a
few night without sleep trying to read through these forums for the answer and at
least that gave us things to try and eliminate from what could be causing this.

I contacted an online Answer Service. For $15 dollars, I got the answers from a
man who happens to be the shop foreman of a Volvo garage. Think it's a dealer.
Guy was a real Volvo technician, ASE certified, expert rated, w/12 years of experience
This service gives one the option of not paying if you don't think the answer is
right or are unhappy with it. THis is after you have received your information
I asked my mechanic if I should pay for the answer that was given. He said that
it was good information and of course I should pay for the services rendered.

Here is the answer that the Volvo Technician came up with-
"This may be one to live with, so to speak.. Assuming everything you've stated is correct, and plumbed properly, there should be a slight vacuum. However with an older engine, especially being turbo, if there is enough blowby past the rings it may be enough to overcome the designed crankcase vent system. I do recall one vehicle like this, an 850 turbo none the less. The same scenario was present (new breather box, plumbing, fresh air hose, etc), and still positive pressure remained. A cylinder leakdown test showed the problem.. Worn rings causing just enough blowby to create excessive pressure, even though there was no,or little smoke from the tailpipe as one might expect. A compression, and more imprtantly a leakdown test will likely show some worn cylinders. "

I was'nt happy to hear my rings might be getting worn at only 90K, but I paid.
My mechanic thinks one remedy could be to attach a small hose with some kind
of filter on it and just vent the excess pressure straight into the atmosphere.
Don't like adding to the Earth's polution & global warming but what else can I do?

Thanks to all who took the time to answer and also to all who bothered to read this
Volvo folks are the best. <-------------- Yes! That most definitely is a period there.

:+)

Ernesto
Angeles National Forest
1997 Volvo 850 GLT Wagon
1987 240 DL Wagon- sold to neighbor.
(Glad he's getting good service from her,
but it kills me to see it driven every day,
while my GLT sits at the mechanic's) <g>
1998 240 DL Sedan w/329K-
R.I.P - she went to the crusher unfortunately,
since a new power steering rack costs BIG bucks.

Well, they say you can learn something every day. I certainly never knew the crankcase operated on a slight vacuum.

I was always told that no matter how good the rings were, that simply because they are made of steel going up and down a steel cylinder, it is impossible to seal off every imperfection (of the rings/bore) and therefore compression blow-by to the sump always occurred.

However, if the rings were seated well, then only an imperceptible amount of blow-by occurs which the engine can tolerate with no real problems.

Blow-by is as natural as the sun rising everyday - and only starts to create problems when it exceeds specific levels (I don't know what that level would be - my guess it would vary from vehicle to vehicle).

What do the experts say?

Both of my 850s create some pressure. If its warm, running and you pull the dipstick there is pressure, not vacuum.

If there was supposed to be vacuum in the block where would the air come from to feed this suction?

(copied from another website i read)

As your engine runs, gases from the cylinders can leak past the piston's sealing rings into the crankcase. This leaked gas is sometimes referred to as "blow by" because the pressure within the cylinders "blows" them "by" the piston rings. These gases include compounds harmful to an engine, particularly hydrocarbons (unburned fuel), as well as carbon dioxide and water vapor. If allowed to remain in the crankcase, or become too concentrated, the harmful compounds will condense out of the air within the crankcase and form corrosive acids and sludge on the engine's interior surfaces. This can harm the engine as it tends to clog small inner passages, causing overheating, poor lubrication, and high emissions levels. Additionally high pressure in the crankcase can build to a point that leads to a rear main seal failure, an expensive repair. To keep the crankcase air clean, an evacuation or ventilation system must be present.

There are different types of PCV systems depending on the car. Some systems use a PCV valve – a one-way valve that ensures continual evacuation of gases from inside a gasoline internal combustion engine's crankcase. Other systems use an oil trap or separator to do the job.

Over time PCV systems and associated tubing can become clogged and fail to vent the buildup of pressure.

How can you tell if you need to replace your PCV system? One test is with a warm running engine pull your dipstick. Does smoke billow out of the dipstick tube? If so a faulty PCV system could be the cause.

You may want to try cleaning your PTC before tackling the PCV replacement. This is an important step when you replace your PCV system as PCV tubes attach to the PTC on the air intake hose. A blockage there may be the source of the increased manifold pressure and a smoking dipstick. If this is indeed the source of your problem this is a quick, inexpensive fix compared to replacing the entire PCV system. If the PTC is clean and you still have a smoking dipstick the PCV system likely needs cleaning or repair.

dont let your engine run with pressure for a long time. the 850 engines should run with a slight vacuum in the crankcase, the breather box/oil separator system is connected to the air intake at the flame trap elbow and the air passing by on its way to the intake manifold creating this evacuation/vacuum.


:huh: :unsure:


good luck!

Thanks for the info, Wodsytf!

All of the breathing system has been checked and replaced; oil trap and all hoses
that run off of it. All the inlets the hoses were attached to were cleaned out. The
bayonette connector in the accordion hose was cleaned out, and the inlet as well.

As the Volvo tech said, if everything I said was done already, then I'll just have to
live with it. He had an 850 in the Volvo dealer shop where he's the foreman that had all of the same things done to it that I've done on mine, with the same results.
The oil STILL pushed out of the oil cap.

You shared the following-
"To keep the crankcase air clean, an evacuation or ventilationsystme must be
present." . . . and " Don't let your engine run with pressure for a long time."

Since my mechanic has taken all corrective measures possible, after he does a
compression test and a leak down test, he intends to change my motor's system
from being closed to an open system by fabricating an oil breather pipe. Our pals
across the pond in the U.K call ir a "Road Draft Tube." My mechanic said his old
Ford pick up has one, and the 18 wheel Big Rigs still use this system today.
I won't have that installed until after I pass the California Emissions Test.

I had read there that my 1997 850 GLT was exempt and to ask the smog tech to
look up his "Schedule J" to see about it. He referred to something called the
"Smog Inspection Manual." It said the 1996 Turbo was exempt, because "all of
the monitors reset to "incomplete" upon EVERY ignition key-off.
Action to be taken- via VID communication, the test analyzer ignores monitor
status; the monitors are not to be used for pass/fail decisions."

For 1996-1998, the manual says is- "All Volvo models except the 850 Turbo."
I'm not sure what that means. That all models can be tested, and the 850 Turbo
is exempt, or vice versa?
According to the Smog Manual the problem it describes is
"Some monitors are difficult to set to complete.
Action to be taken-
Volvo provides driving cycles in its service informationn to assist technicians to operate monitors. See Volvo Technical Service Bulletin #SB-2-23-0056."

So now I don't know what to do. I have to pass smog so I can register it to me.
I've had it for two months, and most of that time it's been in the shop.
Still very much Love this machine, and want to do whatever's needed to keep her.

Thanks for the reply, Woodsytf and everyone else for their feedback.

:0)

Ernesto
1997 850 GLT
(has a low-pressure turbo)
Angeles National Forest

you know, they always say to learn something new everyday, i am seriously stumped. i have never heard any of this. especially the road draft tube. unless it's called something else here, it sounds like a breather tube. but i still dont' get it on why it's needed. i guess it must be correct. cali has some seriously strict pollution control, so maybe it's a west coast thing. please post with your findings, this is getting real interesting.

Yes, Mr. Greek Mason,

They' are all one and the same.
What you call a breather tube is what my mechanic calls a breather pipe,
and the Brits call it a road draft tube. I think they call it that because the
draft helps to pull out what ever is in the tube- pressure, maybe some oil mist.

The reason why it's needed os to relieve the excessive crankcase prssure
that's causing oil to push out of the oil cap. We don't know what else to do.
If I try to run it the way it is, I'm going to blow out the rear main seal, for sure.

Thanks.

Ernesto

but that is what the pcv does. and the 2.3 turbo already has a breather on it for just that purpose.

I probably have gone to that conclusion, as well, though i'll first check to see if i was losing a lot of oil, that doesn commensurate the loss from those from the oil-cap.

Alternatively, i know of someone who used TWO oil-cap seals to stop the oil from escaping via the cap. That obviously, is just a temporary measure.