ive seen pics of airboxes with holes in the bottom half on this site, and on others... why? and what is the benefits of it, increased flow? cooler air? isnt it dense and hot under the box?..... what about the ipd air box? its exspensive but clearly functionable.... then i found this short ram on ebay, it installs pre maf but takes the place of only the top half of the box, not seperating the air from the heat under the hood. it rains to much for a cold air intake low mount, but im about to spend 130.00 on that half time intake but if its not a good part then no. seller has an 850r with the same intake.
question simple... do i need to, have to, go with the ipd style cold box, and can i make my own... im capable of making one, i rather make one, but how?
OH AND I UPDATED MY GARAGE!!!! :amen:

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this basically has been an on going post for a long time. there are two camps, the ones who want the cone type filter with the box and the ones that don't think they are needed. you are correct in alot of points. if you check out ampangbears garage photos in the 850 section, you will see that he has drilled holes in the "bottom" of his box. the colder air is entering from there. the more holes=more air. now, if you want to go for the ipd type, or any other type of cone filter, then just be aware that there is ALOT of under hood heat, as you know since you work on your 850. i have seen them with a gasket along the top meaning that it might seal itself under the hood. not sure. me personally, i have a similar unit to the ipd one. difference is that i also ran a seperate hose to the radiator for more air flow. saw that one on several different 850's and liked the look. but, on my impala, i ran the cone filters down and to the side, not worrying about rain since they are slightly above the chassis line. but, the next mod for me is to relocate the battery to trunk so that the place where the battery was will be open so that i can build a ram air-type of box for the cone filter. just take a look through the garage section and see what everybody has. hope that helps.

I haven't looked at the pics yet, so it's possible I'm about to stick my foot in my mouth, but where is that cold air coming from? The bottom of the air box is still in a hot engine compartment. Drilling holes in the bottom of it just allows hot air to enter, as opposed to the factory hose that draws in cool air from behind the grill.


Yeah, that's kinda my point. Do we have any info on the flow rates of the stock system? Does it really need improving for most people running around with a stock (or very close to it) engine? This is one of those areas where I think people spend money for nothing other than looks, and that's cool if that's what you're into. This is just my personal philosophy, but I don't see the point of spending money on something that doesn't make it go faster or handle better, especially when it comes to spending money on something that might actually make it slower....like an intake that draws in hot air, thereby decreasing fuel intake, thereby decreasing overall power.

To each his (or her) own though, right?

For the full impact of a cold air intake system you need to find a way to direct the air to the box/cone filter, etc. before it enters the engine compartment. The holes will allow more air in which would help some but the improvements will be less than the cold air. A CAI mounted high in the engine bay out of the way of road water would be the best. Mounted high I don't think you would get enough rain water to have any adverse impact. Something in front of the radiator would be best.

Hi I actually drilled holes in my air box also. I didnt notice an increase in performance until the ECU had time to adjust. (it actually can change itself and adapt) I did mine different than Ampangbear. More holes but smaller. There is a few people who did theirs on their own, here is a link to one and a picture of my box when i did mine. http://www.quickbrickmotorsports.com/tech_diycai.html
I hope this was helpful to you.


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to rosso, if you pull up the airbox, it is connected to a base that draws cold air from the inner fender area, well, cool-ish more likely. that'a why alot of members drill the holes, lets in more air, for volume as opposed to colder. jks2 is correct in his stating that the farther away you can place the filter, the colder the intake temperature will be, at that point. the engine is still and engine and that's the heat sink right there. you want the make the air as dense and cold as possible. if you just go and get a filter and slap it on without a heat shield or a connecting hose to a source of cold air, then you are, to paraphrase my dad, trying to poke a hole in water. that's my dad, the philosopher. or, as my brothers and myself like to say,"he's a b*llsh&ter" (thanks mel brookes) anyway, will you see a definite improvement, not sure. depends on the mods to your engine. even stock, if it isn't at a stage zero tune, you probably won't feel it. if it's in top shape, stock or non, then yes, there is a difference. even slight, there will be. the fuel economy will rise because there will be less of a surge to get up to speed and when you are at speed, it takes less fuel to keep it there. now if you are going to go around and redline/full boost it all day long, no matter what you do, you'll have crappy mileage. besides the holes, anything that you do to your car depends on the tune. plugs and wires, as an example. if you go and get some platinums or iridiums and some 8mm silicone wires, the msd box, etc, and then you don't tune it up after you install them, you just dumped a couple of bills down the toilet and the car still drives like crap. it's all relative. try drilling the holes. re-route the air-intake hose. or, add another to the airbox, but route it from the lower bumper. ampangbear has a couple of pics in his garage section that shows the extra tubing. and i am sure he feels the differences, plus the holes he has drilled, otherwise i am sure he would have yanked the pictures off and not have told anyone as opposed to exposing it to the several thousand hits he has on his pics. way to go bear!!!!!!!!!!!! okay, enough pontificating, go and drill something rosso. :grin:

And member my idea to cut a large hole in the bottom of it right where I placed the holes. I am still thinking about doing this, you probably wouldn't want to unless you had a reusable filter though.

no, not really piece, reusable or not, a filter is a filter. nothing wrong with the stock paper ones, just make sure they don't get wet.

I still don't get it. I mean I do, kinda....holes = airflow...yeah, sure. But we're drilling holes in the air box, thereby providing a route for hot engine air to enter the intake, and we're doing this based on the assumption that the airbox was designed by the factory in such a way as to not provide sufficient air flow for the requirements of the engine. I'm not willing to make that leap without some kind of evidence that the engine draws more air than the airbox will flow. My guess is that you have to get pretty serious about engine mods before your engine requires more air than the flow rate of the stock airbox.

At any given point you've only got the intake valves on one cylinder open, maybe a little more if theres any overlap with another cylinder, right? So what is the air flow rate through two valves compared to the flow rate of a 3 inch (?) tube that feeds the airbox?

Plus, with the stock air intake routed up to the grill, don't you get a certain amount of 'ram air' effect at speed that is negated when you drill holes in the airbox?

ram air is only ram air when it needs to be "rammed" in. like the old muscle cars, hood scopps, etc. the hose isn't ram air, it is just an inlet. take the cone filter and introduce it to a forced air, ie, a stream of air, that is ram air. if it needs to pull air in, by vaccuum, that is just induction. now, take the vaccuum effect and give it more air, more power. if you just stick this filter into a stream of air, it'll get all it wants until you stop at a light, then it reverts back to vaccuum. think of it this way, scuba gear, the air is blowing always, right? that is ram air. breathing or not, it is being forced, rammed, into your mouth. now, if the valve closes everytime you breathe, or you have to suck air into your mouth, you would want as big a snorkle as possible. hence the holes. and by modding the engine, i don't mean opening it up. now you have a completely different set of variables if you are talking about valve overlap, etc. i am just talking about basic tuning priniciples that the average and above average mech/diy would do to get a little extra out of everything. and to your statement about the amount of air to the box set by the factory, that is just the point. it is set by the factory as per requirements, those being government, insurance liability, etc. pick any car and you will see a myriad of products, some good some crap to achieve a performance standpoint that should have been from the factory, but would have been cost prohibitive from a selling point. no amount of modifications will justify a car, a volov for instance, pushing 500 horse and selling for 90 grand. sell the car making 300 horse with the ability for the aftermarket to unleash the added 200 horse, you have just halved the factories liability in case in doesn't have the 500 advertised horsepower, ex see ferrari about 4 years ago and the 3 million dollar lawsuit, and you won't have to worry about idiots, like me, who will try and find an additional 100 horse and blow up the engine thereby wanting a new one because of the warranty. it will always be a choice for people to either believe in something and do it, or be skeptical. nothing wrong with either one. hope i didn't confuse you, because i got worried myself there for awhile. have to go and turn the roasts over and prep for the early dinner crowd. be back in about three hours.

+ 3 (i guess) to Harry!

:grin:

In anycase, the holes were only supposed to help in allowing more volume of air into the system. I still have the original duct that starts from beside the radiator in front to the bottom of the air filter box. I didnt remove that.

I think I pondered the idea of putting a smal casing of coleman's coolers below the airfilter in the airbox once, but the condensated air translated into water drips that ruined the MAF. HAHAH. I know, i know, ****. My wife prolly had the same thought as well, especially since i had to spend some RM350 for a replacement MAF sensor. (But i'm still trying to revive that MAF sensor... afterall, its just water...)

In a way, Rosso is right. About the part where the hot air in the engine bay will be sucked in.

But the point on the factory standard is sufficient for the requirements of the engine is debatable.

You can actually see this, is you notice just how constrictive the air hoses are for the stock air filter. Which is why the performance ones all use the open-pod system, where the opening area is way larger than the 2 X 4 stock opening at the front.

The engine area is indeed hot. As such, even after changing the 2mm gasket on the intake manifold with the 6mm teflon gasket alone is enough to feel a difference. Not many will agree with this. I didnt at first too. But then after thinking about it for quite some time, i decided to give it try. And funny that it may sound, but we could feel the difference in engine responses just by changing the intake manifold gasket. Imagine that.

Air would have travelled in the intake manifold like what? A fraction of a second? And as such, the rate of heat it absorbs would have been guessed to be minimal. But guess again, the teflon acted as a good non-conductor that it is, and thus, insulates the intake manifold from the heat from the engine block.

Even when my engine got busted, the teflon gasket was undented. What more scarred. No signs of damage at all.

Point what i wanted to make is just that, while many would agree the stock performance of any factory car is universally limited to 70% or 80% of their true potential, any kind of modifications to 'release' the remaining 20% - 30% potential is always welcomed.

:)

And yes, Harry is right.

I DO feel the difference. Its something like a cheap way of getting your engine to perform better.

If i'm rich like the Greek, i'd strip the whole thing apart, and build a new one to match his 1000hp Impala...

Hahah...

you know, that's why i love this guy so much. he is so humble. bear drives like a million miles an hour, he shops at kinki's (which i tried to find a website and it wouldn't let me in unless i could actually confirm my age????? i', like a 40yr old body with a 5 yr old brain and a 16 yr old libido!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) anyway, the man has fans from all over, ex. bigdaddy. rosso, we as a whole (the forum) are here to help out, we've all done the really stupid things, some of us, okay, just me, have done reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally stupid things. point is, we all are trying to help out, so whatever you do, do NOT listen to me, but listen to the bear :grin: especially if i tell you to change out the turbo, get some blue injectors and go out hunting for some civics. :banana:

Rosso, I told my father about drilling the air box yesterday today he calls me and says "son it feels like a new car, its got so much more

ok well after observing the aparrent mess i made of the whole hole in the box thing, one question still remains, is it a mod that is helpful or not? i can do it, but i dont want to have to visit the parts guy explaining my hacking abilities, again. and i opted out on that funky intake.... i love my car, like i love my kid, nikes over skechers, you know.

Yeah right, at your own costs!
HAHA...

"Your Honour, i SWEAR i have NEVER seen that guy before, in my whole life!"
When shown photo shaking hands with the guy...
"Ah yes, i remember, he's a friend and i've known him for years..."


:haha:

COOL!

:)