I have had alot of Alpine equipment over the years, and I really can't offer any faults about it their stuff that I have experienced. I have never used any Alpine peakers though (only ued Head Units, Amps and Cossovers). The reviews look good though and for the price, it looks like that may be a good deal. Have never had any bad Alpine equipment, so I would assume the same quality goes into their speakers. However, sound quality is a personal matter. As with my preference towards Infinity, some people love them some people dont like them, I am sure there are people who don't care for the sound the Alpine speakers produce. I would hazard a guess that the reason for the major price drop may be due to that model being discontinued soon (just a guess), but that doent mean they are not good. They carry the Alpine name and probably the quality (unless they are a form of entry level series made elsewhere, but I have no idea on that).Looks like a great price.

Since you apparently only have 6 speakers, I would verify the ohm rating of the rear shelf speakers. Volvo may use 4 ohm rear speakers when only one pair is in the rear. This should not create a problem, but it may make them sound louder than the front if you were to parallel a new set in the doors (correctable with the fader though)

Your rear doors probably wont have the housings if the OEM speakers don't exist, but that is no big deal as they are not necessary. Are the wires present though? If not you will have to run new wires there, and from what I saw with my 850, it doesnt look like a real easy job to run new wires to the doors, but I might be wrong (I didnt have to so am not positive).

I will usually suggest that people listen to speakers before buying them as they will all produce slightly different sound, and what matches your taste can only be determined by you. All around music types, a brand like Alpine is probably a good choice. From what I have piddled with over the years, it is pretty common for any one brand to be really good at certain things and only decent at others (as with Pioneer, I think they make excellent head units, but do not like the speakers at all and their amps arefar from a personal preference). Alpine tends to be better rounded off with their products though, producing very good products, but none really top end in my opinion, but for most applications this is perfectly satisfactory, as to typically go beyond this level you will need to be doing more than simple item swaps, which it doesnt sound like it your intention.

Here is the one thing that usually gets me when redoing a system. It is not uncommon for OEM speakers to sound somewhat flat or dull. Quite often this is because they don;t use the best speakers, and as such most will lack the high end freqency reproduction. Instead they go for a more balancedmid frequency system that works fine together. Most decent aftermarket speakers will focus on the full frequency range, and as such will produce many of the highs you were missing before. Because of this, it is common for people to feel they lose some or alot of the bass they once had (since the higher the frequency the more directed it is, whereas bass is omnidirectional). Because many OEM systems lack the highs, the bass sounds more pronounced and evenly balanced. Once you begin reproducing the missing highs the bass begins to seem to disappear. In a sedan OEM system, your bass is largely produced almost entirely by the rear shelf speakers (as I have noticed in my volvo, the stock front speakers all had bass blockers on them). So if you replace your rear shelf speakers (and do not want a real separate subwoofer) then make sure to get a pair that reproduces bass well. If they house them in plstic housings (similar to the rear door pictures I gave) then you will want some that are designed to work in smaller areas, otherwise you will want ones designed for free air operation, that will use the entire trunk as their enclosure. Putting ones intended for small areas in a free air situation can easily create distortion or clipping, and using free air ones in small encloures can produce muffled bass (sometimes it can be hard to distinguish...depends on the design).

As for up front speakers. Due to the location of the front door speakers, I would suggest one of two routes, if you are considering not replacing the dash speakers.

1. Get a 2-way speaker with an adjustable or aimable tweeter, otherwise the tweeter may just be aimed at your knees and halfway directed into the dash sides, which can eliminate the proper soundstage reproduction (where you really shouldnt be able to tell where the sound is coming from, and it will slightly kill the high frequencies.

2. get a 1-way or 2-way front door speaker and replace your dash speakers with ones that are good for high frequency reproduction. The dash doesnt need to be aimed as it is designed to focus the sound to you from the windshield.

It can be difficult to match various speakers to produce the perfect sound and a car is a horrible sounddstage to start with, so certainly dont expect perfection.


If it were me, in your situation, I would focus me initial purchases this way (if I were to be on a tight budget and wanted to upgrade parts over time)

1. Replace the dash speakers with a good 2 way that has it's own crossover.
2. Replace the rear deck speakers with good 2 way or 3 way speakers (without any modifications, I think you will only fit 5x7s, which leaves a limitedamount of choices....I have been told 6x9;s do not fit without modifications)
3. Replace the front door speakers with good 2-ways that have crossovers, or if you feel the dash speakers produce enough treble already, replace the doors with a 1-way mid-bass speaker, and use a bass blocker that blocks out somewhere in the vacinity of the 120-200 Hz range.
4. Install rear door speakers with good 2 way speakers with crossover and adjustable tweeter, if you have people who ride in the back much while you have music playing. Or use a good mid or mid-bass speaker.

Depending on the usages mentioned, you will want at least 4 tweeters somewhere. Relying entirely on the dash speakers will produce rather unatural sound and probably get drowned out by the mids.

Assuming the rear door speakers are the only differnce (or lack of), then you probably have small 2 way speakers in the dash, 1 way speaker in the front door, and 2 way speakers in the rear deck. That is how mine was with the added rear doors having 2 way speakers. All were paper cone speakers that were deteriorating.

I have also read that volvo speakers have a tendency to have the magnets poorly glued and have read many reports of people finding out that their speakers dont work becaue the magnets have simply fallen off.

Hey,

Yes, there are wires in my back doors.

I was told by Crutchfield that the 5 x 7 will not fit in the rear deck...I wish I knew if that was true.

Is there any place you know of that has prices better than Crutchfield?

What do you think of these for the front door and dash area?
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...=3&tp=106&avf=N
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...tures_and_specs



Rear deck?
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...c=3&tp=93&avf=N

thanks

Keep in mind that speaker preferences are in many cases just that (one's preference).

I have never been a fan of any of Pioneer's speakers, so for me they wouldnt even be a consideration, but they may be just fine, or may even be the kind of sound you like.

Kenwood makes pretty good speakers (better than Pioneer in my opinion). My real preference with Kenwood has always been their head units though, and have had very few sets of their speakers.

A note about Crutchfield though. They generally have very good information and are pretty thorough in what they sell, however I have found several discrepancies in their listing on what fits in an 850. 4" peakers for the doors, in my opinion in wrong...5-1/4" ones fit about as close as one could expect and to go to 4" would require making brackets, whereas the 5-1/4" do not. I have a wagon so I cannot speak from experience on whether or not 5x7s will fit in the rear deck. I have read several places where it has been confirmed many times that 6x9s will not, but are very close and the same places said they were able to fit 5x7s in their rear deck (there might be a very tiny amount of modification, I am not certain). However 5-1/4s will fit in the rear deck if you are creative with the mounting. Problem for me with 5-1/4s in the rear deck is the loss of any real bass potential. They also say that a double din wont fit in an 850, whereas my double din could not have fit any more perfectly. Its possible they say it wont because you have to cut the rails out, and they are simply stating what will fit without any modifications whatsoever, but cutting the rails took all of about 30 seconds.

As for the speakers you linked. You are linking component speaker sets, which are generally the higher end of those models (they arent just normal 2-way speakers). The component series are usually better than the standard 2-way, and do allow for moe mounting options, however in some instances having to mount a second speaker behind stock grilles (if you want to maintain the use of your stock speaker grilles) can become a problem in finding the proper space to do it or proper location to mout them in a beneficial way. Component sets also require a little more work to mount and are not uncommon to require some drilling if you keep them close to each other. Without having the other proper pieces of equipment, you may not even notice any real difference between a component set and a standard 2-way, with the exception that mot component sets have a slightly better ability for bass reproduction, but if you ue any bass blockers or crossover in your head unit, you wont have the bass in them anyways. Budget conscious, I would look more towards a standard 2-way.

If you are considering speakers in the $150 range, there are other brand I would consider over the Kenwoods (although the component versions may be out of that price range, the 2-ways shouldnt be). MB Quart Reference Series is one I would certainly look into. Boston Accustics is also a good bet. JL has some nice more entry level speakers as well, and of course the Infinity Reference or Kappa series (but I suggest you listen to some Infinities before choosing them...they are exceptionally good for high end frequencies, but for some people they sound overdone and "tinny", and Infinity 5-1/4s and smaller are pretty well known for having no real bass potential at all). Clif is also fairly decent but not exactly an easy find in most places (to be honest I dont even know if they are still doing much)

Lastly, if you do want to maintain a budget, try to stick to it. It is very easy to find yourself wanting to keep stepping up and ending up way over budget. Car stereo setups can become a bug cauing people to want to keep buying more and more stuff, and once you start looking into good brand component systems you will want to start looking into better amplifiers to take advantage of them, proper subwoofers and crossovers, which can quickly lead to needing a better battery (or multiple batteries), a stonger alternator, capacitors (if you want or need them), custom boxes, etc (not to mention the pain it can be at times to run the proper large wires to powerful amps or multiple amps...trying to pull 4 gauge wire or smaller through a car so it isnt seen can be a real pain...haha)

blakbyrd,

I just got my front door panel speakers off. They are factory 4 ohm.

So at this time I have Dash is 8 ohm, Front doors 4 ohm, rear deck 8 ohm.

I would like to have a component unit in the front doors and dash....but maybe I will just have to put 5 1/4 in the front doors.

Would it hurt if all the new stuff was 4 ohm?

What do you think of Blaupunkt stuff?

I was looking at this for the rears because of the three way:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...3KFC5782&tp=105

What about this for the front door and dash?
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...tures_and_specs


I know I am buggin you, I am just not sure about this stuff.

Mike

You're not buggin me at all, this stuff is just a hobby (as opposed to work) so I still enjoy the stuff..haha. I also hope any others reading this stuff will feel free to offer any suggestions or experiences as well or even correct me if I get something wrong.

As for Blaupunkt, I have used very little of their equipment. I have always felt they made good stuff (generally somewhat unique as well). However my experiences with them have mainly been with head units, and they also do factory OEM systems for some car manufacturers (or used to). Regardless that was many years ago that I used their stuff (back in high school). If you use component speakers like you link, you have 2 options on mounting them (well 2 main options).

1. Mount both pieces in the door locations, and either continue to use the OEM dash speakers or disconnect them. Leaving the wiring as it is will parallel the dash and the new component front door speakers, producing a little over a 2 ohm load rating which should be fine.

2. Mount the midbass in the door location and the locate the tweeter where the dash speakers are (it is also common to mount the tweeter on the moulding going up the side of the windshield for a more direct shot to the listener. For me I mount things as best I can to keep them hidden. Going this route I would probably disconnect the OEM dash speaker, but you could maintain using them if you wanted.

The rears you are looking at are probably plenty good and much better than any OEM stuff you will have (same goes for the Blaupunkt). Take note of the speaker power handling abilities though. You want to pay attention to the RMS value, not the peak value. I dont know what the power output of your head unit is, but it seems to be rather common for most newer head units to have 40-60watts per channel. The Kenwood you linked has a RMS value of 5-40 watts. This will not really matter if your head unit has more than 40 watts per channel, unless you listen to your music loud or if you parallel a set of rear door speakers with them (which will create a 2 ohm load, basically doubling the power being sent to them, assuming any rear door speakers are also 4 ohm).

Using new speakers that are typically 4 ohms is perfectly fine. Most head units are rated for 4 ohms. Almost all head units are also safe operating under a 2 ohm load.

Here is some basics on determining Ohm ratings where pairing up speakers on a single channel (keep in mind component speakers or 2,3-way speakers generally count as one speaker when figuring this out):

To wire in parallel will drop the Ohm rating of the speakers. Parallel wiring is simple, by just taking the positive lead from the head unit to the positive connection on each speaker, and then doing the same for the negative lead. If you pai speakers of the same ohm rating (and this is just for 2 speakers, not more), it is simple...your combined parallel ohm rating will be 1/2 of the ohm rating of one of the speakers (thus two 8 ohm speakers will make a 4 ohm rating, or two 4 ohm speakers will make a 2 ohm rating). If you mix different ohm rated speakers, then here is the formula for that (again this is for pairing up 2 speakers):

Speaker #1 Ohm rating = A
Speaker #2 Ohm rating = B

(A x B) / (A + B) = Total Ohm rating

To wire in serieswill raise the total Ohm rating. Series wiring is also pretty simple, effectively making a single loop with the wiring. You would wire the positive lead from the head unit to the positive connection of speaker #1. The run the negative connection from speaker #1 to the positive lead of speaker #2. The you take the negative connection of speaker #2 back to the negative lead of the head unit. Series wiring is easy to figure out the final ohm rating, as is shown below:

Speaker #1 Ohm rating = A
Speaker #2 Ohm rating = B

A + B = Total Ohm rating

The reason the Ohm rating is important simple determines how much power is going to be applied to the speakers. Most will be rated at 4 ohms,a lower ohm rating will boost the effective power output and a higher rating will lower the effective output. To make things simple, lets just assume you have a head unit that supplies 50 watts @ 4 ohms to each channel. In a perfect world you would want to match the output power to the handling power of the speakers, but unless you liten at max volume this is not as important, unless you are exceeding the power capabilities of the speakers by alot.

So under a 4 ohm load (assuming you use just one speaker or a pair of speakers with a final rating of 4 ohms), you will be supplying up to 50 watts to that speaker(s). If you were to parallel wire a pair of 4 ohm speakers, then you would have a 2 ohm load, which would double the potential output power of the head unit, making it 100 watts @ 2 ohms. You are not producing alot more power, which is why most amplifiers and head units do not handle anything smaller than 2 ohms (this generates alot more heat and most head units cannot take any more heat than this, as well and simply not containing the proper components or wiring to withstand the extra stress it produces, but 2 ohms is usually stable). If you were to wire a pair of 4 ohm speakers in series, you would then have an 8 ohm rating, which would then cut the power abilty in half, meaning you will only be providing 25 watts of effective power, which is far less efficient and for a head unit would greatly reduce the volume level you can achieve and probably making it unacceptable.

Each time you cut the ohm rating in half, you basically double the power output.
50 watts @ 4 ohms = 100 watts @2 ohms = 200 watts @ 1 ohm = 400 watts @ 1/2 ohm

Each time you double the ohm rating you cut the power output by 1/2
50 watts @ 4 ohms = 25 watts @8 ohms = 12.5 watts @ 16 ohms

So just keep a mental note of the power you will be providing your speakers at the ohm rating you will have on each channel. Also make sure to base your speakers off the RMS power handling, not the peak power (most will try to initially advertise the peak power, not the RMS). Peak power is simply the maximum power the speaker can handle in short bursts before damage occurs, and even nearing the peak power will generally produce horrible sound (clipping, distortion etc). Long exposures to peak power or exceeding the peak power can melt the speaker coils or blow the cones.

PS- My "S" and "X" keys dont work well, so you may find a bunch of words missing them...haha.

Hey,

This is what I am thinking about doing.

This is my head unit.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...gt610ui&tp=5684

Amplifier Section: The head unit's amplifier is CEA-2006 compliant and rated at 17 watts RMS x 4 channels at 4 Ohms and 1% THD. The unit is also rated at 23.2 watts per channel minimum continuous average power into 4 ohms, 4 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with no more than 5% THD. Peak power is rated at 52 watts per channel.

The front component speakers are:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...23GTC542&tp=106



The rear deck speaker are:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Ite...023GTX572&tp=93
OR
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Gro...5brank3%5d3-way


Will I need a bass blocker for the front speakers or should I run ones with a crossover?

So, for my setting is Parallel better?

What gauge speaker wire should I run?

Thanks again....

OK few things to consider.

1. Are you satisfied with the capable volume level your original stereo system produced?

2.Did you find yourself playing music at over half volume with the OEM system?

Reason for asking is because (from what I understand) your OEM head Unit probably had close to twice the power output of the Sony head unit you are going to install, which may or may not be an issue for you.

You can boost the output some by parellel wiring the front door component speakers you want with the OEM dash speakers. Whether or not you like the outcome of that pairing is up to you. However parellel wiring those speakers should be fine. This may produce a setup where the front speaker will be notiably louder than the rear ones, but the fader can correct that if it is an issue to you at the time.

Most component systems come with crossovers, but I didnt see one mentioned right off except for the high range for the tweeter. So those speakers are probably better designed to produce some bass (but not alot). Installing a bass blocker is very simple, they are cheap, and can be installed in a couple of minutes later on if you find they areclipping or producing unwanted distortion because of the bass. I would give them a shot without them first and see what you think. Some brands I would suggest bass blockers right off the bat, but with those Blaupunkts you might want to try them without first.

Speaker wire is of no real concern at this point. The ones factory wired already should be perfectly fine. You're not pushing alot of power and you're not into the type of components where it will make any noticable difference to run new wire. So on that point, the hard work is already done for you, just use the wires already there.

What do you think of Infinity products?

Like Infinity 50.7cs and Infinity Reference 6822cf

Well, Infinity has always been one of my favorites for car speakers (subwoofers is usually a different matter, but this time around I went with Infinity there also).

Inifinity is a bit unique in some ways, and because of that they tend to have a good following of customers who love their stuff and some people who just don't like they type of sound they produce.

As for the high frequencies, to me Infinity is able to reproduce them on a level I have been unable to find much else equal to them, without spending alot more money. However this is generally the cause for some people not liking them, as the highs are very well pronounced and some people think they sound too "tinny" or overpowered in the high frequencies. To me these are quite often sounds you miss or find hard to distinguish in other speakers, and I prefer the sound the produce.

Although I will highly recommend Infinity, it is also a brand I also highly suggest that you listen to first. With Infinity you dont really have to find someplace selling the exact model you want. If you are looking at the Kappa series, listen to any relatively equal Kappa, same with their Reference series. They will have a somewhat unique sound from many other brands and because of that you need to see if they are what you like. I know people that love themand people who dont like them at all.

Going for the component versions are typically better than the standard 2-ways, but without proper equipment, you may notice very little to no difference between the two when simply powering them from a head unit. The only real difference is t he ability to mount the tweeter where you want, which can help. If money is a tight issue, you may be able to cover more ground with 2-ways, but that is up to you...the components are very good speakers.

As for the 5x7's, I have never had a car where I used 5x7 or 6x9s. These types of speakers will generally develope a slightly different sound, although many wont notice the difference. They do better at producing bass though. However, Infinity's smaller speakers (in all I have experienced) have always suffered from lack of bass reproduction. I have always used separate subwoofers when all my other speakers were Infinitys. The 5x7's may produce the bas well enough for you, I really cannot say, however how they are mounted will make a difference (free air or inside housings).

Hey,

Thanks as always...

These are what I am thinking about....

I have looked at some 6 x8 and they will fit in my factory enclosures in the rear deck



http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/Pr...ProductID=15365
and
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/Pr...ProductID=18369

or

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/Pr...ProductID=18831
and
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/Pr...ProductID=17343

If I were choosing between those, I would take the Inifnities hands down. I have never been much of a fan of Clarion, to me they always seemed a bit cheap. However, my experience with Clarion is exceptionally limited so my opinion them isn't exactly up to par. Alot of OEM systems use Clarion components, which is a large portion of why lack of preference for them (but that is of course, generally their lower end products). I have had a Clarion head unit in the past and was not thrilled with it, but for speakers, mostly I have only dealt with Clarion's OEM stuff.

To me, the two are in two different classes. If I were to compare Infinities with another brand I would look more at the MB Quart's or Boston Acustics, for a close comparison in performance, but that would be comparing Infinity Kappas. The reference series is a step below the Kappas, but both MB Quart and Boston offer different stages.

MB Quart is not difficult to find, but Boston Acustics is not sold by as many vendors (which isnt to say they are not as good, I expect Boston is just a little more picky about who they let sell them).

Either route will probably be perfectly fine, given the system you are looking to create. Without using better amplifiers (and just using the head unit to power the speakers with OEM Volvo wiring), you may not notice alot of difference between the two anyways, although I expect you will notice much more defined highs with the Infinities. Again though, Infinities generally have very well defined highs that to some people is too much, and lack somewhat on the bass. I expect the 6x8's will produce decent bass, but I cannot say for sure, as I have always had a separate subwoofer when I have gone all Infinity for the mids/highs, and thus cut the bass out of the Infinities I used. Their 5-1/4" speakers do not produce bass real well (not many 5-1/4" speakers will), which is what I have used the most throughout the years. Even then, any 5x7 to 6x9 will only be able to produce bass in a mediocre amount, unless it is specifically designed for, and there are a couple designed for that...I think Kenwood makes a self powered 6x9 subwoofer unit, designed to be hidden away alost anywhere, but I don't know how good it really is).

I am replying to the entire post when I write this. I'm not knocking Crutchfield, the shipping and speed of everything as well as the quality, and the amount of free installation gear was great... HOWEVER, i just bought 2 pairs of 4" Kenwood KFC 1061S and tried to mount them in both front and back door, DID NOT FIT.

Blackbyrd is absolutely right. It was my mistake, I called crutchfield and even they told me they would definitely fit with the brackets they offered but it STILL needed modifications beyond my efforts.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that VOLVO makes it as difficult as possible to install anything not made by their OEM. Anyways, i'm returning them, they're giving me a full discounted return so I don't lose a penny, but I'm upset it didn't work out. Why can't they just figure it out already? This is getting a bit rediculous, every website, even the professionals so to speak, are getting it wrong consistently. I guess I'm just going all out and sticking with speakers Inifinity Kappa quality or at least that size and depth.

Hope this helps some of you guys, stick with a Kappa sized speakers and follow the direction up top. That's my next mission.

Take care guys and good luck.

Well, I suppose in defense of Crutchfield and any other professionals that may do this kind of thing for a living, their information may be correct. However, only really correct in that they use extra aftermarket items to make such speakers fit, and when using those extra brackets (at an extra cost, no longer allows a larger speaker to fit). As such, a standard aftermarket 5-1/4" speaker wont fit perfectly with the mounting holes of a Volvo, and so they probably just say they dont work, but usong their special bracket for a 4" aftermarket speaker allows you to still use all Volvo mounting points.

Granted all such people have a professional standpoint to keep track of. For me, I am after functionality, and going the route of a precision fit at every mounting point has just never been a necessity of mine. Nor is spending extra money for things that are not really needed. However, I had to do fair amount of research.

:wacko:

OK, i give up.
:)

I got a quick question,

i put 4 ohm speakers in my rear doors on my 94 850T to replace the 8 ohm speakers that were in the door previously. Since the speakers by the back window and the speakers in the door are wired in parallel, how much power is still getting to my speakers up by the window?

anyone who can help please reply.