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> 1993 Volvo 850 Will Not Start In Morning If Cold
blove
post Nov 29 2007, 02:50 PM
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I have a 1993 Volvo 850 Sedan that takes 10-20 cranks on cold mornings to finally start running. It will catch on the first engine start and then die a second later. On the next start it will not run at all. Turn key off and try again and it will catch and then run for another second. After 10-20 of these cycles it will finally start running. This only happens in cold weather. Even after the car sits during the day, it will crank up. The car was kept in a garage and it didn't have this problem during the winter. But now there is no garage and it must sit out in the cold during the winter. No problem starting in the summer.

Anyone have any ideas on how i can correct this??????
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David Marinacci
post Dec 1 2007, 12:47 PM
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I just purchased a 96 850 Volvo Turbo wagon with 200K kilometers on it and have exactly the same problem. If cold (32F) I can barely start the car if I keep turning over the engine continuously for 20 - 30 seconds - maybe more. I.e. Initially it tries to start then nothing. If you keep trying it eventually sputters and if I persist it usually starts rough and eventually begins to fire on its own.

Once I start the car it is fine for the rest of the day unless I leave it sitting in the cold for 6 -7 hours. Then it begins all over again.

I have invested a lot of time trying to diagnose the problem and have only been able to find a = partial solution.



Here is my temporary fix. I have found that if I try to start the car in the morning and it does not start I crank the engine for 5 - ten seconds. Then I remove the fuel pump fuse located in the fuse box under the hood. Crank it for 5 seconds - it usually firs up and dies (running out of fuel) Then I replace the fuse and crank the engine. It fires up in a few seconds and I am good to go for the day. However, I still do not know why. (I have actually wired a dead fuse in series with a good fuse and a toggle switch which I have on my dash) in the mornings I go through the above cycle to start the car - wierd

Anyone out there have a good idea why this seems to work?

For background here are the things I have investigated / changed which have not solved the problem todate.

- New spark plugs - no effect
- New cap and rotor - no effect
- Then I used an obd2 reader to collect any codes. - found no codes.
- Reviewed Volvo technical - procedures published on the web for 850's giving instructions on how to trouble shot conditions - when there are no codes present.
- Other than the obvious = this document points in the direction of - potential fuel injector leaking, or faulty pressure in the system. - However, the car runs fine and starts fine after it is started once ... so it seems to me it is likely an intermittent problem. (However, this my be the next place to investigate if all else fails)
- Repaired leaking - vent pipe attached to turbo - no effect
- Purchased a subscription to Alldata - found a technical service bulletin - (Engine Ignition Conditions and Starting Difficulties) - which required checking the coil resistance and grounding of the coil, connections and battery terminal. Looked promising but - after a few hours of work had no effect.
- Further investigated Alldata and found that - a defective engine temperature sensor could cause the computer to alter the fuel injector timing. I.e. if it were defective the computer assumes a 68F temperature - felt that might be the problem starting at 32F. However, after confirming the temperature gauge on the dash works (and is powered by the sensor), and then confirmed the resistance of the sensor when cold and when hot was to spec. gave up on this idea.
- Exhaustively reviewed the wiring diagrams and component repair and operation data for a hint of why - so far to no avail.
- One form respondent speculated that this problem may be due to flooding. I.e. the fuel leaks into the head and washes the cyl reducing compression. In my case it does start after the removal of the fuse. Hence I believe my compression is ok. Might be flooding, however, but seems to start quickly after the above mentioned sequence (removing fuel pump fuse).
- Removed the main relay for the fuel system (located on the radiator cowling) and inspected and cleaned the connections - seem fine - coil resistance seemed fine as well. Also the fuel injectors do work so the relay must work as well. Could be sticking however, removing the fuel pump fuse to unstick it sees like a stretch ...
- Then next thing I am going to check - is the fuel pump relay. Maybe is stuck open or shut on start up - and once it is cycled (fuse removed) it acts properly --- just a thoght.


Any ideas out there?

Conclusion so far. a) maybe the fuel pump relay sticks

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blove
post Dec 3 2007, 11:41 AM
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Hey Dave...

After figuring out how to work the onboard diagnostic computer, I received a code for a bad mass airflow sensor. I took it out, cleaned it with contact cleaner, terminal and all, which i noticed was corroded a little, and put it back in. Wasn't able to see if it fixed the problem till the next day--cause it only happens when car sits out in the cold at night. Same issue.

I ordered a used airflow sensor this morning since a brand new one is $250. I actually feel like it could be the computer module that controls the emissions, fuel flow, etc. It is just weird how after it finally starts, it will run smooth all day and crank up on the first go. I disconnected the airflow sensor and cranked it up and it ran really rough. Plugged it back in and it runs great. So is it not working?

The code says its out. Code 1-2-1....So I don't know

As far as the fuel relay, I'll try it tomorrow morning...

Let me know if you figure anything out...
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70 140
post Dec 3 2007, 12:36 PM
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For the guy with the long list.. Did you replace the plug wires? I notice you did plugs, cap, rotor. If the wires are old they easily get "damp" and won't carry the voltage needed to start the car. You crank the car a bunch of times and the voltage travelling though will dry them up enough to run.. Then everything is fine until they get damp again... Just a thought

I would try that. If they are really bad, sometimes they will arc when you are trying to start the car.
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renns
post Dec 3 2007, 01:19 PM
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Here's a couple thoughts:

1.) Too much fuel/flooded: Sounds like David's issue. Cranking for a while with the throttle wide open might get it running, but pulling the fuel pump fuse is a good way to ensure no more fuel is entering the mix. If flooded badly, clean plugs, and a bit of oil down the cylinders should solve it. Possible cause: Leaking fuel injectors, or starting/stopping engine repeatedly without warming up - excessively rich after-start mixture tends to wash down the cylinder walls, reducing compression when cranking. I had this issue when starting on a cold day to back the car out of the garage, and then re-started later just to drive back in. The engine only ran for 10-20 seconds each time, and never had a chance to warm up. The next morning, it was flooded and VERY difficult to start. This is likely worse with a high-mileage engine as well.

2.) Not enough fuel: This sounds like the issue for blove. Possible cause: Faulty coolant temp sensor signal (sensor, connector, or harness issue). The engine computer uses the coolant temp info to determine startup and warmup enrichments, which increase at colder temps. If the computer thinks it's already warm, it will squirt far less fuel on crank and startup. It could also be MAF, fuel pump, or fuel pump relay. For the latter two, a check for fuel pressure at the end of the fuel rail would help in the diagnosis.

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big_tuna27360
post Dec 3 2007, 04:33 PM
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just had the same problem......In my case it was the fuel pump relay
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TheGreekMason
post Dec 4 2007, 04:46 PM
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If you squirt starter fluid into it, does it start?
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blove
post Dec 4 2007, 10:01 PM
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Haven't gone there with the starter fluid because it will eventually crank after 15-20 tries.

Weird thing this morning though was I turned the ignition on and left it there for about 20 seconds. Cranked the car to no avail. It died right away. Popped the hood. Took out the fuel pump fuse. Put the fuel pump fuse back in. Turned the ignition on and B.A.M!....the car started right away and didn't die.

So what does that mean?
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big_tuna27360
post Dec 6 2007, 08:17 AM
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Try this....remove fuel pump relay, bring it in the house for the nite...the next morning pop it in and it should crank. My car would do the same thing in the morning if it was under 45 deg F....when the relay would start working, I would hear a "chatter" from the left part of the dash...This would only happen when it was cold and the car was parked outside. You can also switch the car to the on posistion but not cranked----and listen for the hum of the fuel pump running, if ya dont hear it it may be the fuel pump relay. There are some write-ups on how to fix the existing relay---and it works!...but i suggest buying one, and repairing the one that is defected...just throw the repaired relay in the glove compartment for a spare, because when it does go out--you will be stranded...

Fuel Pump Relay Fix
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blove
post Dec 10 2007, 09:58 AM
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It was the fuel pump relay. Thanks for the relay fix big_tuna...

Will try and fix the old one but now must buy new one...

Cheers Everybody...
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Grgogo
post Oct 23 2009, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (David Marinacci @ Dec 1 2007, 12:47 PM)
I just purchased a 96 850 Volvo Turbo wagon with 200K kilometers on it and have exactly the same problem. If cold (32F) I can barely start the car if I keep turning over the engine continuously for 20 - 30 seconds - maybe more. I.e. Initially it tries to start then nothing. If you keep trying it eventually sputters and if I persist it usually starts rough and eventually begins to fire on its own.


Have a look at the fuel pressure regulator. If the diaphragm fails, fuel will enter the engine through the vacuum line and screw up the prescribed fuel/air mixutre. Follow the vacuum line from the regulator (under the intake manifold) to the vacuum tree. Pull the soft rubber connector from the tree. If it's wet with fuel then the regulator is bad.

To replace you'll need to pull the fuel rail. Get a new regulator and injector o-rings. Should take you about an hour.

GR
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