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> Sus Vs Weber Carbs
justart2
post Aug 18 2006, 10:00 PM
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Hello,

Does anybody have any thoughts about which carb is better on a B18 for daily driving, a Weber or the stock SUs. Nobody around here drives a 122 so it's hard to get an opinion.

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Abacaxi79
post Aug 22 2006, 06:18 PM
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Hello...

I wouldn't say there is a "great debate" or "holy war" on the subject, but you will find those who will align themselves with the stock SUs and those who will align themselves with the single Weber conversion, both having arguments for and against one or the other.

For the sake of argument, I'll assume you're referring to the Weber DGV/DGAV/DGEV carburetor conversion for comparison since that seems to be the conversion most go for in lieu of the stock.

These two articles from VClassics may provide some guidance:

http://www.vclassics.com/archive/weber.htm
http://www.vclassics.com/archive/stoichio.htm

My overall impression from experience is that the Weber isn't so much an upgrade as it is a side-step. Before the recent engine transplant on my '68, it ran with a B18 w/ a Weber DGV (118K mi) and was a fine daily runner for putting about. The '67 I had a couple years ago had a pair of cleaned (but not rebuilt) SUs on a B18 with 257K mi, and the car ran like a top despite being a much more worn engine. From my experience with the two types, I can definitely agree with the author on two of his statements:

1. The Weber was more simple to tune and you didn't have to tinker with it afterward despite season changes. Not that the SU's were hard to tune, but they're just a bit more involved.

2. The SU's were more responsive on the throttle, and it felt like I had more power at the higher end than I felt with the Weber.

So I guess for daily driving, either do just fine. The Weber is supposed to be more economical, but I've found them to be about the same (Problem with that comparison is my SUs needed rebuilt and were not as efficient as they could have been, and on the Weber I've tended to run its mixture little rich for performance, thus making it less economical than intended).

Just out of curiosity, what attributes would you consider good in a carburetor? What would be your expectations?

- Dan

QUOTE(justart2 @ Aug 18 2006, 11:00 PM)
Hello,

Does anybody have any thoughts about which carb is better on a B18 for daily driving, a Weber or the stock SUs.  Nobody around here drives a 122 so it's hard to get an opinion.
[right][snapback]39337[/snapback][/right]

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justart2
post Aug 22 2006, 08:44 PM
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I guess the attribute that I am looking for is reliability. Speed means nothing to me. When I drive the 122 I drive like my Grandmother. Well, she probably drove just a little faster. I am not a total purist but if stock equiptment is just as good as aftermarket, I would just as soon leave it stock.
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twocreativeforge
post Aug 22 2006, 08:50 PM
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Thanks Abacaxi79,

I was wondering the same thing. I have had a lot of old timers telling me to "get a weber," but I have heard nothing compelling enough for me to change. Me and my SUs are just getting to know each other.

Don

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Abacaxi79
post Aug 23 2006, 11:53 AM
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I had both my '67 and '68 at the same time for a few months and I kind of wish I had swapped carbs between them before I sold the '67 off. I had been led to believe that the Weber was an upgrade and that what I had in the '68 would be superior, hence not doing the swap. Besides, the SUs I had were very worn and would've required a bit more of an investment than I would have wanted to sink into them at the time.

I'd venture to say the reliability of either one shouldn't be an issue. Serviceability may be another thing...the old SUs were used on a lot of older British cars so you'll find people in those circles that know how to work with them. The Weber is a more recent design with applications on lots of more relatively recent Japanese and smaller American autos (okay, 70's & 80's Japanese/American cars as opposed to 50's & 60's Brit, hehe). The SUs haven't been in production for decades, and I think Weber only recently stopped production altogether in the last couple (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that).

If your SUs aren't giving you any troubles right now, I'd say stick with them and save your money.

Now that I have a bit more money to throw into my car, I had considered purchasing a set of renewed SUs. As it stands now, the Weber provides inadequate breathing for the new engine that was recently swapped in (B20, cammed, big valve FI head). The SU's would be a great improvement over the Weber that's currently on there since there's better breathing on the intake, but I'm going to a dual Mikuni bolt-n-go setup that has gotten a lot of good feedback. It uses a more modern larger-engine motorcycle carb from their lineup that works well on the B18/B20 application. I'll post some stuff up on here when I cross that bridge, hopefully in the next month or so.

- Dan

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druid
post Aug 24 2006, 06:53 AM
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I would always side with the su 'cos if you up the power on the motor you only need to fit different needles (20mins if your slow) the full rally cars put out 150bhp with rejetted stock SU carbs

on all other cars its a re-jet which means a big stripdown, i have twin su's on my '64 and have just had a full kit to rebuild them for 60 its a genuine SU service part and its not new old stock but brand new.

The only thing i didn't do was have them linebored but i have the bushes from the kit so that can still be done - there is no play in the butterfly shaft so it seemed pointless.
SU for me on this car
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twocreativeforge
post Aug 24 2006, 09:14 AM
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druid,

Where did you get the kit?

Don
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Abacaxi79
post Aug 24 2006, 12:41 PM
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Maybe "serviceability" was the wrong word choice. You're right that the parts are still around for rebuilds and the like. What I meant was more that there are fewer and fewer people out there, except in more esoteric circles, that are familiar with the SUs (rebuilding, refurbing, and troubleshooting/tuning) than I would imagine with something that came out more recently. Of course if you are already familiar or are looking to learn to do it yourself, that's all a moot point. :)

- Dan
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druid
post Aug 25 2006, 01:57 PM
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i bought the kit from amazon cars, e-mail is sales@amazoncars.co.uk the website is amazoncars
the telephone no is 01379388400. proberly will export but if u email them they may recomend one in the states. its only a small box so shipping should be cheap.

les
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twocreativeforge
post Aug 25 2006, 04:22 PM
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Druid, thanks for the info.

Don
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TypeIIPersonalit...
post Jan 1 2007, 08:54 AM
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Hey folks

Another good place in the US for repairs and parts is www.sucarburetors.com they have been helpful for me.

cheers
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twocreativeforge
post Jan 1 2007, 10:20 AM
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Thanks for the link TypeIIPersonality I will look them up.

Don
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yeahitsme
post Jul 26 2009, 07:32 PM
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Just to throw my hat into the ring, I'm on my second '67 122, though it's running the same engine (a stock B20) as the first... I ran both vehicles on the same set of SUs, and despite all the horror stories people kept telling me, I loved them. I never had any big troubles tuning them, and the fact that I got great throttle response at any speed, my gas mileage wasn't bad either (assuming that I used only as much throttle as needed to get the job done). All good things must come to an end, however, and eventually they started to crap out and were in need of a rebuild. As I already had a progressive dual-barrel single Weber that came with the 2nd car and neither the time nor money to rebuild the SUs, I finally caved in and slapped the Weber on. I'd heard nothing but rave reviews about them, so I expected good things.

In my experience, however, they work, but not how I'd like them to. The main drawback is in regard to acceleration... Basically, it seems like the first 75% of the gas pedal does nothing but waste fuel at any speed over 30 MPH or so. On the highway, I pretty much have to floor it to accelerate from 50 to 65. Really, both barrels have to be open if I want to accelerate, and I'm by no means a lead foot. I'd say that the first 20% of the pedal is fine for maintaining speed, but until it's about 75-80% the only difference is the sound of the engine as it consumes my precious petrol. As a result, my mileage is significantly lower despite all the claims I've heard otherwise...

So yeah, I'm sure that could've been said much more succinctly, but oh well. It's healthy to vent, right? Needless to say, I'm rebuilding the SUs. Of course, this is just my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.
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vrgtm
post Dec 18 2009, 07:29 PM
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Commentary I've seen tended to compare new Weber setups to worn out SU systems. By the time (150,000miles?) a set of SUs wears out, so has the linkage. The yokes on inside ends of throttle shafts develop pockets; the pins that activate them develop a flat spot; result is the cross shaft squirms and buckles, the squirming/buckling complicates the wear points; linkage won't synchronize dependably. Replace yokes and cross-shaft and other small parts. This eliminates squirm and promotes synchronous throttle action. Rebuilt SUs and linkage are very dependable and easily adjusted.

I have no experience with Weber so of them I can only say that comparing a new Weber to rebuilt SUs (with worn linkage) is a false pursuit. Can also say SUs can be rebuilt easily/cheaply with a drill press, clamps, some planning, and pocket money.
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