Buying '97 960, Requesting Thoughts? Options

[ten20]

Hi,

I'm a new user here, I hope I'm posting to the appropriate forum. Thanks for anyone with time to offer their thoughts.

I'm looking at a '97 960 Volvo sedan with 122,000 miles and new tires (less than 1k miles old), regular oil changes, smogged last week, full records and all features working, that belongs to a customer of my Volvo mechanic who I really trust. The person is selling it for $4,400. I know very little about cars, and don't know if this is too cliche but I looked it up on kbb, and it seems like the absolute highest it should sell for is $3,500-$4,000. But I don't know if that takes the new tires into account?

I've got an appt for my mechanic to fully inspect the car this Wednesday morning, for $180. I'm unsure and would appreciate advice regarding the following:

a) Is getting it inspected a waste of $? The seller already has all the records and is willing to share them (I'm not sure if that's before or after the sale, but I'd think if she's willing to have it inspected, she'd be fine with letting me look at her records).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Is there any way that $4,400 is a fair price? If not, what is an honest fair price for it, if it passes inspection fairly flawlessly? (I don't want to make an insulting offer, but obviously saving $400-$900 would be really helpful.

c) The owner (the guy I trust most at the shop) is less involved with the shop now. In the past when I asked him about purchasing other customers' cars, he has said he'd be able to talk down the seller by a few hundred. I think he'd probably do likewise here if he thought it priced too high, but given that he's there less often, I happened to speak to another staff member today, who seemed highly reticent to be involved at all.

I understand obviously that good boundaries should be observed, but I got the feeling they are more inclined to side with the other client, who has been their client for fifteen years, vs my one year, and who undoubtedly has spent a lot more $ with them. I know having an inspection is supposed to help me negotiate better, but I'm concerned whether they might not be fully honest about any flaws/older parts (the owner definitely would be), and just whether it would be better for me to ask up front if they'd lower it by $400, rather than spending $180 and then negotiating?


Thanks for thoughts on any part of this, if there's anything you think I'm excessively worrying about feel free to let me know, or any particular features of the car I should ask after, I really appreciate the advice!

[bagger]

Hi,

I'm a new user here, I hope I'm posting to the appropriate forum. Thanks for anyone with time to offer their thoughts.
I'm looking at a '97 960 Volvo sedan with 122,000 miles and new tires (less than 1k miles old), regular oil changes, smogged last week, full records and all features working, that belongs to a customer of my Volvo mechanic who I really trust. The person is selling it for $4,400. I know very little about cars, and don't know if this is too cliche but I looked it up on kbb, and it seems like the absolute highest it should sell for is $3,500-$4,000. But I don't know if that takes the new tires into account?

Did you buy the car?
I sold February 7th a 1998 white Volvo S90 with 176,000 miles for $2800. Cosmetically, mechanically and interior were very good condition,
The first day I put a For Sale sign on it and drove it into work, someone wanted the car and we negotiated to the price of $2800. Had I advertised it on Craigslist, newspaper, internet, Ebay, I feel I could have got $3400 for it.
It had within the past 10,000 miles had struts, shocks, brake pads, ball joint, inner and outer tie rod ends, and sway bar end links
And in the same month I bought a 1998 silver S90 with 156,000 miles for $3400. The car needed and I installed brake discs / pads all four wheels, struts, shocks, ball joints and sway bar end links and new tires. I'm going to change the fuel filter.

I suggest you run a Carfax. Carfax will tell you how many owners, odometer, servicing, accidents, flood damage and other useful information.
With 122,000 miles on the car your considering, in 18,000 miles you will have to change the timing belt and parts about a $600 job parts & labor.
Dealers expect more for the car than private sellers. From a private seller, in excellent condition cosmetically, mechanically and interior wise $3200-$3400 is a fair price IMHO.

[AlaskanPrincess]

I suspect you've already made your decision...but in case you haven't, or in case you're still looking, I'll add some data and suggestions.
I've found Edmunds.com to offer more realistic pricing; you, or others, may agree or disagree with that - again, just my experience. I used their appraisal on '97 960 sdn (no options added; entered color as white, condition as clean) and used Lakeside/Santee, CA. as location/area. It gives 3 values: Trade-in ($1834); Private party ($2421); and Dealer Retail ($3401) with note that vehicle isn't eligible for (dealer) certification. http://www.edmunds.com/volvo/960/1997/tmv-...se-results.html
As far as mechanic - yep, possibly in a pickle of a situation: what does he/they do when 'in the middle' of 2 customers? If there IS an issue and they make you aware of it, they likely lose the seller's business. I'm a proponent of pre-purchase, independent inspection, but $180? Wow! If you're shelling that much out for an inspection you need to be relatively certain you're going to buy. Do you have a car knowledgeable friend who can help you with 'pre-screening' process?
I've been looking at cars, and initially did things 'backwards.' Now..I'd suggest, look vehicle up at Edmunds.com so you learn what's standard and what were options, and get idea of value. (This will give you some idea of some questions that need to be asked...often you'll have trouble getting value/s because it's common for seller to only include minimal details in an ad. "Buyer beware" - owner of 850 I considered listed it as 'well maintained' it was only when I specifically asked about A/C and did it work, that I found out a/C and heat did NOT work. Research indicated MAJOR problems, heater core, etc., and seller agreed that my research had been 'right on.' My geographic location doesn't lend itself to my just popping over somewhere for test drives...I need to do major screening ahead of time.)
Look up complaints, investigations, recalls at Traffic Safety website. (Will also give you more questions to ask seller...)
Go to Volvo forums (this one, and the old RPR-USA Swedish Brick boards) and look up known problems/issues. It's also my experience that every year/model has quirks/issues. IF you don't find any, do just what you did here - ask! And...read...read...read....you'll learn a lot about Volvos from these forums.
Carfax is another tool - altho' it seems reporters will be primarily dealers, and national chains. It's likely seller who has used a small, independent garage or shop will NOT have reported to Carfax. And, that still doesn't tell you what WASN'T done. (You have to get familiar with service/maintenance/repair requirements/schedules and common issues!)
Then of course there's the test drive! Have a list of things to inspect, and questions to ask. Don't overlook anything! (I almost blew off 'picky' stuff until I reminded myself...some of Volvo's minor stuff can be real spendy! Cup holders (often broken) - list for about $150. Ext. light lens covers - often lens can't be replaced, you have to replace ENTIRE light assembly (cost of part..and labor!) So, what should be 'minor' can burn thru $500 - $1,000 real fast. Odometers commonly fail (break) so even it it's working, ask if it has EVER broken, or has ever been repaired! (And read elsewhere in forums about how to check/verify mileage other than by odometer reading!)
Lastly - seriously look at RWD vs. FWD vs. AWD...and decide if you prefer one over the other. It may not matter to you. (My experiences, again, have been that FWD is costlier to maintain...but if you buy a RWD that has MAJOR issues, such as evaporator, stuck front seats, and heater core...the fact that's it's RWD pales into comparison of what the repairs will cost (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ,In that situation, a well-maintained FWD that's had all the 'known issues' repaired/replaced would probably be a better buy. I'm assuming you (like me) have to pay a mechanic.
Always, always, ALWAYS, ask about replacement of the timing belt (and associated parts, including water pump!)
I love Volvos but they are not all created equal! Good luck and pls post about your Volvo after you buy it!

[danielm85948]

I suspect you've already made your decision...but in case you haven't, or in case you're still looking, I'll add some data and suggestions.
I've found Edmunds.com to offer more realistic pricing; you, or others, may agree or disagree with that - again, just my experience. I used their appraisal on '97 960 sdn (no options added; entered color as white, condition as clean) and used Lakeside/Santee, CA. as location/area. It gives 3 values: Trade-in ($1834); Private party ($2421); and Dealer Retail ($3401) with note that vehicle isn't eligible for (dealer) certification. http://www.edmunds.com/volvo/960/1997/tmv-...se-results.html
As far as mechanic - yep, possibly in a pickle of a situation: what does he/they do when 'in the middle' of 2 customers? If there IS an issue and they make you aware of it, they likely lose the seller's business. I'm a proponent of pre-purchase, independent inspection, but $180? Wow! If you're shelling that much out for an inspection you need to be relatively certain you're going to buy. Do you have a car knowledgeable friend who can help you with 'pre-screening' process?
I've been looking at cars, and initially did things 'backwards.' Now..I'd suggest, look vehicle up at Edmunds.com so you learn what's standard and what were options, and get idea of value. (This will give you some idea of some questions that need to be asked...often you'll have trouble getting value/s because it's common for seller to only include minimal details in an ad. "Buyer beware" - owner of 850 I considered listed it as 'well maintained' it was only when I specifically asked about A/C and did it work, that I found out a/C and heat did NOT work. Research indicated MAJOR problems, heater core, etc., and seller agreed that my research had been 'right on.' My geographic location doesn't lend itself to my just popping over somewhere for test drives...I need to do major screening ahead of time.)
Look up complaints, investigations, recalls at Traffic Safety website. (Will also give you more questions to ask seller...)
Go to Volvo forums (this one, and the old RPR-USA Swedish Brick boards) and look up known problems/issues. It's also my experience that every year/model has quirks/issues. IF you don't find any, do just what you did here - ask! And...read...read...read....you'll learn a lot about Volvos from these forums.
Carfax is another tool - altho' it seems reporters will be primarily dealers, and national chains. It's likely seller who has used a small, independent garage or shop will NOT have reported to Carfax. And, that still doesn't tell you what WASN'T done. (You have to get familiar with service/maintenance/repair requirements/schedules and common issues!)
Then of course there's the test drive! Have a list of things to inspect, and questions to ask. Don't overlook anything! (I almost blew off 'picky' stuff until I reminded myself...some of Volvo's minor stuff can be real spendy! Cup holders (often broken) - list for about $150. Ext. light lens covers - often lens can't be replaced, you have to replace ENTIRE light assembly (cost of part..and labor!) So, what should be 'minor' can burn thru $500 - $1,000 real fast. Odometers commonly fail (break) so even it it's working, ask if it has EVER broken, or has ever been repaired! (And read elsewhere in forums about how to check/verify mileage other than by odometer reading!)
Lastly - seriously look at RWD vs. FWD vs. AWD...and decide if you prefer one over the other. It may not matter to you. (My experiences, again, have been that FWD is costlier to maintain...but if you buy a RWD that has MAJOR issues, such as evaporator, stuck front seats, and heater core...the fact that's it's RWD pales into comparison of what the repairs will cost (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ,In that situation, a well-maintained FWD that's had all the 'known issues' repaired/replaced would probably be a better buy. I'm assuming you (like me) have to pay a mechanic.
Always, always, ALWAYS, ask about replacement of the timing belt (and associated parts, including water pump!)
I love Volvos but they are not all created equal! Good luck and pls post about your Volvo after you buy it!

you would be better with a volvo 940 than a 960 they have gearbox and engine trouble like a cracked head and over heating.